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2019 NFL Draft - Interior Defensive Line

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2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I agree and disagree with this. I mean, Nick Bosa quit the team and he'll still go Top 5. If a QB does what Bosa did, he's got MAJOR red flags for competitiveness, work ethic, dealing with adversity, etc. (BTW, I don't fault Bosa for leaving and making his money, just arguing the opposite).

 

True but to me Nick Bosa is not an issue thanks to his brother and that bloodline.  Dad played in the NFL and Joey Bosa his brother is a flat out super star with great technique for the position, Nick Bosa is not far away from that and is similar to his brother in many ways.  So there is a level of security there, sure he was injured all season but it was a obvious major injury and he would have never played again this season most likely anyway.  

 

If Nick Bosa was on the sidelines late in the year and freaked out over being asked to take a coat off and give it to a player who is playing like Ed did people would be saying the same thing about him.  Now Ed Oliver will probably make most of those questions go away when he proves how great of an athlete he is at the combine but still he made some poor choices I feel this past year but probably should not hurt him that much. 

 

Also hurts Quinnen Williams played so great and has come on so strong this year, so really I think few would take Ed Oliver over Quinnen Williams at this point as a DT thus Oliver might drop a little just on that.  Also Ed Oliver was supposed to dominate even more because of the competition level he plays against consistently and did not have this wow year in his final season at Houston.  But is harder for him because he plays with far less talent than Williams did on Alabama or even Bosa on Ohio State as well.  So the combine will show a lot and who knows maybe if he blows up there he will get back up to the top.

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3 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

True but to me Nick Bosa is not an issue thanks to his brother and that bloodline.  Dad played in the NFL and Joey Bosa his brother is a flat out super star with great technique for the position, Nick Bosa is not far away from that and is similar to his brother in many ways.  So there is a level of security there, sure he was injured all season but it was a obvious major injury and he would have never played again this season most likely anyway.  

 

If Nick Bosa was on the sidelines late in the year and freaked out over being asked to take a coat off and give it to a player who is playing like Ed did people would be saying the same thing about him.  Now Ed Oliver will probably make most of those questions go away when he proves how great of an athlete he is at the combine but still he made some poor choices I feel this past year but probably should not hurt him that much. 

 

Also hurts Quinnen Williams played so great and has come on so strong this year, so really I think few would take Ed Oliver over Quinnen Williams at this point as a DT thus Oliver might drop a little just on that.  Also Ed Oliver was supposed to dominate even more because of the competition level he plays against consistently and did not have this wow year in his final season at Houston.  But is harder for him because he plays with far less talent than Williams did on Alabama or even Bosa on Ohio State as well.  So the combine will show a lot and who knows maybe if he blows up there he will get back up to the top.

All I can say is, as a Browns fan, I truly hope that Quinnen Williams gets taken over him and that Ed Oliver somehow/someway falls to 17.

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3 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

All I can say is, as a Browns fan, I truly hope that Quinnen Williams gets taken over him and that Ed Oliver somehow/someway falls to 17.

Falls to 17?  That will never happen I feel.  Rashan Gary maybe but that would be a big time stretch and really might not be the best fit in Cleveland since he is more of a end anyway and not really a DT.  Jeffrey Simmons they could maybe get but the rest of the top DT guys will be gone.  If they do not go OL because I assume most would guess that is how they would go.

 

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8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Falls to 17?  That will never happen I feel.  Rashan Gary maybe but that would be a big time stretch and really might not be the best fit in Cleveland since he is more of a end anyway and not really a DT. 

To be quite honest, they could go with either one. DT is probably a bigger priority, but Ogbah underwhelmed this year and I foresee Avery more as a LB going forward and hybrid rush end. They need a full timer.

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Jeffrey Simmons they could maybe get but the rest of the top DT guys will be gone. 

I could see one of the Top 3 guys falling to the teens out of positional value alone. 

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

If they do not go OL because I assume most would guess that is how they would go.

I'd be surprised (albeit not shocked) if they went OL. Bitonio and Zeitler are Pro Bowl caliber OG's, Tretter is an above average C and they drafted Corbett at #33 last year as the likely heir apparent at the C spot (rumor is potentially OG/RT as well), and Robinson and Harrison showed some potential/played well down the stretch. Hubbard even played decently as their RT.

After switching to Kitchens, the Browns did a remarkable job of protecting Baker, while their DL underwhelmed all season. Stranger things have happened, but I personally don't see it unless it's a stud LT.

JMHO

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17 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

To be quite honest, they could go with either one. DT is probably a bigger priority, but Ogbah underwhelmed this year and I foresee Avery more as a LB going forward and hybrid rush end. They need a full timer.

 

If any of these guys fall to 17 or beyond that would be ridiculous to me.  

Ed Oliver 
Quinnen Williams 
Dexter Lawrence
Christian Wilkins 
Jeffery Simmons 

 

They are all well worth being picked 17 and above but will see.  Possibly team needs might come into play more but honestly the Cardinals need DL help, 49ers might but will, Bucs totally need interior DT help as do the Lions, Bills, Packers or Panthers potentially.  So a quality DT like those guys dropping might be a stretch, not to mention Oliver being the one dropping that far.  

 

Really they would be better off with a 2nd round DT guy possibly like these dudes, Dre'Mont Jones and Tillery are probably gone but Mack or Willis could totally be around 2nd round.

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55 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

If any of these guys fall to 17 or beyond that would be ridiculous to me.  

Ed Oliver 
Quinnen Williams 
Dexter Lawrence
Christian Wilkins 
Jeffery Simmons 

 

They are all well worth being picked 17 and above but will see.  Possibly team needs might come into play more but honestly the Cardinals need DL help, 49ers might but will, Bucs totally need interior DT help as do the Lions, Bills, Packers or Panthers potentially.  So a quality DT like those guys dropping might be a stretch, not to mention Oliver being the one dropping that far.  

 

Really they would be better off with a 2nd round DT guy possibly like these dudes, Dre'Mont Jones and Tillery are probably gone but Mack or Willis could totally be around 2nd round.

I think Lawrence and Simmons easily go later than 17. I like Lawrence, but he has a skill-set that isn't highly valued. Teams are gradually learning that looking athletic for a huge dude isn't the dream ticket they thought it was. Most other teams won't want the stink of Simmons' past to be the headline act of their draft class. He's better than Wilkins, but Wilkins is a high culture guy which will see him drafted earlier than he probably should be in this class. 

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

If any of these guys fall to 17 or beyond that would be ridiculous to me.  

Ed Oliver 
Quinnen Williams 
Dexter Lawrence
Christian Wilkins 
Jeffery Simmons 

 

They are all well worth being picked 17 and above but will see.  Possibly team needs might come into play more but honestly the Cardinals need DL help, 49ers might but will, Bucs totally need interior DT help as do the Lions, Bills, Packers or Panthers potentially.  So a quality DT like those guys dropping might be a stretch, not to mention Oliver being the one dropping that far.  

 

Really they would be better off with a 2nd round DT guy possibly like these dudes, Dre'Mont Jones and Tillery are probably gone but Mack or Willis could totally be around 2nd round.

9ers are in desperate need of EDGE talent, not interior DL. I cannot see them spending yet another 1st round pick on a DT. 

If they did/do....:(

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1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

I think Lawrence and Simmons easily go later than 17. I like Lawrence, but he has a skill-set that isn't highly valued. Teams are gradually learning that looking athletic for a huge dude isn't the dream ticket they thought it was. Most other teams won't want the stink of Simmons' past to be the headline act of their draft class. He's better than Wilkins, but Wilkins is a high culture guy which will see him drafted earlier than he probably should be in this class. 

Simmons maybe like you said with the off the field stuff sure.  But Dexter Lawrence if he falls that is insane, there is not that many dudes that large and that athletic.  The kid is massive and the PED issue at the end of the season to me is really a non issue.  Dexter is a rare talent and big freaking talented NT/DT types will never be something not wanted in the NFL in my book.  I agree Wilkins character should help him a lot and I hope it does but sure he might drop as well but that kid can play and has great athletic ability for a man his size.

 

27 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

9ers are in desperate need of EDGE talent, not interior DL. I cannot see them spending yet another 1st round pick on a DT. 

If they did/do....:(

Does depend on if they switch more to a 3/4 defense or not, but even in a 4/3 with Earl Mitchell gone drafting Quinnen Williams combined with Buckner and Armstead could be scary good.  Sure Devin White could be a nice pickup as well but depends on how he runs at the combine.  It is either a DL or White though I feel, doubt they go with anything else.  

 

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Thoughts on Jerry Tillery? What's his ceiling? Is he a better 3T prospect than Gerald Willis III if you were going to use both in that regard?

Edited by Jeezla

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2 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Thoughts on Jerry Tillery? What's his ceiling? Is he a better 3T prospect than Gerald Willis III if you were going to use both in that regard?

I like Tillery. I’ll get into him more later when I have time 

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9 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Simmons maybe like you said with the off the field stuff sure.  But Dexter Lawrence if he falls that is insane, there is not that many dudes that large and that athletic.  The kid is massive and the PED issue at the end of the season to me is really a non issue.  Dexter is a rare talent and big freaking talented NT/DT types will never be something not wanted in the NFL in my book.  I agree Wilkins character should help him a lot and I hope it does but sure he might drop as well but that kid can play and has great athletic ability for a man his size.

I think the NFL are running out of good examples of where 'dudes that large and athletic' have been worth the high investment. If he's athletic for a defensive tackle, then that's awesome. If he's merely a great athlete for his size, then it's a totally different conversation. If he's coming off the field on 3rd down, which he was at Clemson, then that has to limit your appeal. Spend the premium picks on interior guys who can get after the passer, that's what is truly valuable. 

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17 hours ago, Ozzy said:

 

Does depend on if they switch more to a 3/4 defense or not, but even in a 4/3 with Earl Mitchell gone drafting Quinnen Williams combined with Buckner and Armstead could be scary good.  Sure Devin White could be a nice pickup as well but depends on how he runs at the combine.  It is either a DL or White though I feel, doubt they go with anything else.  

 

DJ Jones will take Mitchell's spot and perform even better, if last year was a true representation of his ability. 

Not only do we have Buckner/Armstead, but Solomon Thomas as well. We have plenty of interior guys and some with talent--especially Buckner. We need EDGE.

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8 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

I think the NFL are running out of good examples of where 'dudes that large and athletic' have been worth the high investment. If he's athletic for a defensive tackle, then that's awesome. If he's merely a great athlete for his size, then it's a totally different conversation. If he's coming off the field on 3rd down, which he was at Clemson, then that has to limit your appeal. Spend the premium picks on interior guys who can get after the passer, that's what is truly valuable. 

Something should be said to the fact that you cannot just go get a guy like Dexter Lawrence any year you want, that guy is a freaking rare talent and should be drafted as such.  Vita Vea not sure how well he did on the Bucs but Lawrence I would say is a more elite talent than he was and Vea was the 12th pick and could have even gone higher.  Daron Payne is another, not a great pass rusher but is strong at the point of attack and was a solid 13th pick and played well for Washington this past year.

 

Sure Danny Shelton never really turned out, or Star Lotulelei and more importantly Dontari Poe after a good start to his career has been basically nothing since then.  So yeah teams can miss on big guys.  And yes a pass rushing DT is more important to most teams no doubt.  And yes one can get some steal later round NT types who could be fine players as well.  But to me Dexter could play 3/4 DE or NT or in a 4/3 DT spot either one.  The guy is not just a great athlete he has been greatly productive from the second he got on the field as a true freshman against good competition.  He has flat out rare talent for a big man one does not find that often much.

 

I feel Dexter can get after the passer by crushing the pocket, getting his hands up on passes and is a real force in the middle.  Sure he will not have 15 sack season but the guy can pressure the QB especially in specific defenses that know how to use him and who to put around him.  I just think he is a rare talent and should not drop to late 1st round but will see.

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10 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Something should be said to the fact that you cannot just go get a guy like Dexter Lawrence any year you want, that guy is a freaking rare talent and should be drafted as such.  Vita Vea not sure how well he did on the Bucs but Lawrence I would say is a more elite talent than he was and Vea was the 12th pick and could have even gone higher.  Daron Payne is another, not a great pass rusher but is strong at the point of attack and was a solid 13th pick and played well for Washington this past year.

 

Sure Danny Shelton never really turned out, or Star Lotulelei and more importantly Dontari Poe after a good start to his career has been basically nothing since then.  So yeah teams can miss on big guys.  And yes a pass rushing DT is more important to most teams no doubt.  And yes one can get some steal later round NT types who could be fine players as well.  But to me Dexter could play 3/4 DE or NT or in a 4/3 DT spot either one.  The guy is not just a great athlete he has been greatly productive from the second he got on the field as a true freshman against good competition.  He has flat out rare talent for a big man one does not find that often much.

 

I feel Dexter can get after the passer by crushing the pocket, getting his hands up on passes and is a real force in the middle.  Sure he will not have 15 sack season but the guy can pressure the QB especially in specific defenses that know how to use him and who to put around him.  I just think he is a rare talent and should not drop to late 1st round but will see.

I do really like Lawrence, I just think in this class the players with pass-rushing upside at his position will go ahead of him and rightly so. Being 'athletic for your size' is fine – but being athletic for the position is what really matters. If he tests out as both, then I’m really intrigued by him. But right now, 3.5 sacks and being off the field on 3rd isn’t worth a premium pick because run defenders are cheap and easy to find.

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2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Something should be said to the fact that you cannot just go get a guy like Dexter Lawrence any year you want, that guy is a freaking rare talent and should be drafted as such.  Vita Vea not sure how well he did on the Bucs but Lawrence I would say is a more elite talent than he was and Vea was the 12th pick and could have even gone higher.  Daron Payne is another, not a great pass rusher but is strong at the point of attack and was a solid 13th pick and played well for Washington this past year.

Dexter Lawrence is more than just a big fat slob that clogs the middle. He can disengage from blocks and make tackles, he can run the loop on OG's which is crazy for his size, and he uses his hands very well to get after the QB. Lawrence is very talented and is being typecast as a fat run stuffer instead of a versatile playmaker that makes splash plays.

 

Danny Shelton was a fat slob. I hated him as a prospect, but he's actually exceeded my expectations. He's a load against the run, but is only really useful at stopping isolation plays and anything in the A gap. He gives no pursuit or pass rush.

 

Vita Vea was a better prospect than both IMO. He was so damn dominant against the run and demolished double teams, disengaged, and made tackles. He also showed the ability to ride interior OL right into the QB's lap and make plays in the pass rush department. I'd have taken Vea over both, but Lawrence is a much better prospect than Shelton.

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