2019 NFL Draft - Interior Defensive Line

[pnies20]

5 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm not going to get into all that, as whether I agree or disagree is immaterial. I just don't think that the NFL treats it differently? I may absolutely be mistaken though, I'm far from an expert in the NFL disciplinary bode and bylaws (though in fairness, I'm reasonably sure the NFL isn't either)

No you’re right as far as I know. That’s my point though... they need to distinguish the two with a lesser suspension for simple assaults, 

[SBLIII]

20 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Question, Ed Oliver was projected by many as a potential #1 overall pick type of talent/prospect before the season. Why is he falling down draft boards now?

I think size is more of a concern than anticipated. His tackling and hand usage is also a problem. He also didn't really improve this past year, played weak competition and did not have many sacks.

[HoboRocket]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Question, Ed Oliver was projected by many as a potential #1 overall pick type of talent/prospect before the season. Why is he falling down draft boards now?

A combo of prospect fatigue and the news that he plays in the 260s/270s and coaches feel that 280 is too heavy for him. He doesn't have the strength of a Donald to counter his size, so I'm sure some evaluators will question whether he has the functional strength to keep from getting covered up in the ground game.

[tyler735]

On 2/14/2019 at 11:46 AM, NYRaider said:

Question, Ed Oliver was projected by many as a potential #1 overall pick type of talent/prospect before the season. Why is he falling down draft boards now?

Was just thinking about this the past couple days. It seems that Ed Oliver has been considered among the most talented college football players since his freshman season. It seems this type of thing happens more often then it should leading up to the draft where "analysts" start picking things apart such as "ideal" size, and forget about the years of gametape/freakish athleticism in Oliver's case. However, I have a feeling Oliver start's to generate quite a bit of hype again after the combine when he shows off his crazy athleticism. I have a feeling if Oliver does slide in the draft, there will be several teams kicking themselves in the near future for not picking him. I think he is a All-Pro type talent. 

[NYRaider]

10 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Was just thinking about this the past couple days. It seems that Ed Oliver has been considered among the most talented college football players since his freshman season. It seems this type of thing happens more often then it should leading up to the draft where "analysts" start picking things apart such as "ideal" size, and forget about the years of gametape/freakish athleticism in Oliver's case. However, I have a feeling Oliver start's to generate quite a bit of hype again after the combine when he shows off his crazy athleticism. I have a feeling if Oliver does slide in the draft, there will be several teams kicking themselves in the near future for not picking him. I think he is a All-Pro type talent. 

I think it really depends on his weight. If he shows up sub 280 you definitely have to be concerned. Raiders fans want us to draft him but I don't think he fits next to Mo Hurst in our base defense. Those two will get abused in the run game.

[tyler735]

44 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I think it really depends on his weight. If he shows up sub 280 you definitely have to be concerned. Raiders fans want us to draft him but I don't think he fits next to Mo Hurst in our base defense. Those two will get abused in the run game.

I'm not really concerned about his weight. We have seen him blow up plays behind the line of scrimmage better than any defensive player in college football for the past 3 seasons. Let's say he comes in at 275lbs-279lbs. Does an arbitrary number of 280lbs really make that much of a difference? He's really young and will likely get bigger still as well.

In terms of athleticism, if the reports of him running a 4.6 in the 40, 650lb squat, and 405lb bench are anywhere near accurate that puts him right there with a guy like Aaron Donald in terms of freakish athleticism while being a very similar size. These predraft concerns just seem eerily similar to the predraft concerns about Donald who slid a little bit in the draft despite his production/freakish athleticism that he displayed in college. This isn't to say Oliver is guaranteed to be the next Aaron Donald, but it wouldn't shock me to see Oliver ranked among the best D-lineman in the NFL in the next few years.

I'm not too familiar with the Raiders system, or strengths/weaknesses on their D-Line at this point, but I'd be surprised if most teams wouldn't benefit from a guy like Oliver. 

[Chrissooner49er]

He has come off as a diva of sorts lately... And his suspected weight is more like a DE than a DT. Perhaps he would work best in a 3-4 as a DE? It worked fairly well for Bryant Young in his twilight years in SF.

[Fureys49ers]

1 hour ago, Chrissooner49er said:

He has come off as a diva of sorts lately... And his suspected weight is more like a DE than a DT. Perhaps he would work best in a 3-4 as a DE? It worked fairly well for Bryant Young in his twilight years in SF.

And Justin Smith, Ray McDonald as well

[HoboRocket]

I think Ed Oliver's best case scenarios in terms of fit are Arizona, NYG, and Washington.

In AZ, Oliver could line up at DE between Chandler Jones and Corey Peters. Peters could be a run-stuffing nose tackle at the line, and free things up for Oliver to do his job wreaking havoc in the backfield as a TFL machine. Lining up next to Jones protects Oliver from too many double teams, as well. 

With the Giants, I think Oliver would get utilized very well in James Betcher's 3-4 as a DE. I love the coaching and scheme fit, but there wouldn't be great talent around him.

As for the Redskins, Oliver would be entering a loaded unit with Ryan Kerrigan and the Bama Boys. With two other big interior D-linemen, Oliver could shoot the gap to his heart's content, and I think he's ultimately winning every. Single. Snap. With the Skins by either taking on double teams and getting Da'Ron Payne, Jonathan Allen, and Ryan Kerrigan easy wins, or destroying one-on-one matchups himself.

[Ozzy]

A great combine could help erase the issues with Oliver, many forget how great of an athlete he is as a DT.  He is elite in that regard but this did not help his case below.... makes him come off as a spoiled football player with no discipline or self control, sure is probably not the case but this did not look help for Ed Oliver at all.  

 

 

Not to mention the emergence of  Quinnen Williams has hurt Oliver, because before Oliver was the clear #1 DT now that is not the case anymore I feel with Q. Williams out there.  And like some have said fit on who is actually drafting at those top spots does matter as well. 

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

A great combine could help erase the issues with Oliver, many forget how great of an athlete he is as a DT.  He is elite in that regard but this did not help his case below.... makes him come off as a spoiled football player with no discipline or self control, sure is probably not the case but this did not look help for Ed Oliver at all.  

 

 

Not to mention the emergence of  Quinnen Williams has hurt Oliver, because before Oliver was the clear #1 DT now that is not the case anymore I feel with Q. Williams out there.  And like some have said fit on who is actually drafting at those top spots does matter as well. 

So, what is the point of rehashing this? There are others who would say he is a team guy for sticking with his team while other high profile prospects chose to ditch their team mid season, and as far as the dust up on the field, there are a lot of people that will tell you that Applewhite could have handled that situation totally different, especially physical touching a guy in a forceful manner. I'm just not sure painting Oliver as a diva/bad guy accurate or fair.

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

So, what is the point of rehashing this? There are others who would say he is a team guy for sticking with his team while other high profile prospects chose to ditch their team mid season, and as far as the dust up on the field, there are a lot of people that will tell you that Applewhite could have handled that situation totally different, especially physical touching a guy in a forceful manner. I'm just not sure painting Oliver as a diva/bad guy accurate or fair.

Maybe but I feel he handled it quite poorly, not to mention what he was doing pre game as an injured player.  It might not be accurate to his personality but someone asked why did he fall out of the clear #1 pick, to me this is part of the reason why along with some other reasons that have been said.  To say this did not happen, well it did and it does matter.  Sure people can say it was Major Applewhite's fault which I do not agree with, to me it does makes Ed Oliver look bad how he handled this situation.  

Now after the combine and he impresses this might be less of an issue but it is still an issue.  

[Chwf3rd25]

What are people's thoughts on Armani Watts from Arkansas?  Just watched his cut ups today vs Auburn, Colorado St, and Vanderbilt and he looked fantastic.  

Great job stacking and shedding vs the run and plays with a really good anchor, great hand usage and length to easily get off blocks, powerful punch to knock OL on their heels, plus really good production this past year on a bad Arkansas team.  He has some motor issues and is a little slow off the ball but I'm a big fan of his.  I'm confused what I'm missing with him given that he doesn't get much hype and wasn't invited to the Senior Bowl.  It's also pretty concerning that he couldn't get on the field until this past season.

[Jeezla]

Is Arizona DT PJ Johnson any good? Or just your standard 3/4 big body run-stuffing NT?

[jrry32]

Does Dexter Lawrence drive anybody else crazy? He's such a difficult evaluation. On 66% to 75% of plays, he's invisible and does next to nothing. But on the other 25% to 33% of plays, he looks utterly dominant and unstoppable. He's so freakishly gifted. There are times when he throws interior OLs (and OTs) around like ragdolls. There are times where he makes OLs miss with his quickness. There are times where he powers right through double teams like a knife through butter. But then he spends the next few plays getting handled far too easily by single blockers.

Obviously, a big part of it is that he's not very polished, plays too upright, and doesn't seem to have a great understanding of what offenses are trying to do. But it's not like Clemson's coaching is bad. Will he suddenly polish up his game in the NFL? I don't know. He's a tough call. On one hand, if he doesn't progress, you end up with a pretty average player who will have his moments but not consistently enough. On the other hand, if he does progress, you could have a top 5 defensive player in football.