2019 NFL Draft - Secondary

[BleedTheClock]

On 12/13/2018 at 9:42 AM, Rich7sena said:

I'm fully expecting a Denzel Ward type pre-draft rise for DeAndre Baker. To me, he's far and away the best corner in this draft despite not being the 6'+ ideal. Why do people not think he's good? He basically shut down Deebo Samuel and Marquise Brown when lined up against them.

Greedy, to me, is not a complete corner. He's not good in run support and he so often plays 10+ yards off the ball. I think he'll have a tough time with the proliferation of the smaller and quicker receivers in the NFL.

He's not going to do well enough at the combine to rise. Yeah he's a star cover man and a future NFL #1 CB, but I don't think he's going to put up ANY elite numbers for a CB aside from the bench press. I think he's the best CB in the class, but I think Greedy is going to rise more because he's going to measure in taller, longer, and faster than Baker. This would be an error, but it's something I think will probably happen.

[BleedTheClock]

Any sleeper safeties in this class? I haven't really found any and the top S prospects that I have evaluated seem to be overrated, not underrated.

 

Jaquan Johnson is a stud in every area of S play.
Taylor Rapp is an incredible open field tackler, but is average at best in coverage and isn't hulking enough to play that "extra LB'er role" in the NFL.
JR Reed has great instincts, but he doesn't look very athletic or big.
Andrew Wingard is a tackling machine, but useless in coverage.
Sheldrick Redwine has great ball skills, but isn't a fully developed football player yet.
Marvell Tell is wildly inconsistent. I love his skill set, but he's not a very good tackler and is often caught with his pants down in coverage.
Chauncey Gardner is meh. He's more of a Nickel CB than he is a S. He's a great tackler and decent in underneath zone. Can't play man-man or deep zones very well.
Johnathan Abram is built like a tank and can make a lot of plays. I do like him, even as a deep high safety. He's not twitchy, but he's fast and has great instincts in run/pass reads.
Jojo McIntosh is purely a box safety. He cannot cover anyone deep. He's slow for a box safety, which leads me to believe he's a ST'er at the next level.
Lukas Denis is a guy I like. Great hips, great speed, great instincts in coverage, great ball skills. He is not effective in the run game and is a poor tackler though. Pure centerfielder.
Chase Hansen and Khaleke Hudson aren't athletic enough to start at safety in the NFL.
I like Tanner Muse, but understand that he's stiff. He's got great coverage instincts and elite size for the position, but shouldn't be drafted until later on day 3.
D'Cota Dixon makes plays all the time. But he's smaller and doesn't have great speed. Probably more of a box safety, but he's damn small to be doing that.
 

 

David Dowell is interesting to me. He moves free and easily and can cover a lot of ground. While he isn't the biggest dude in the world, he doesn't shy away from contact. Purely a FS prospect because of his size, but he's got a lot of tools. He could be a sleeper

 

I also really like Chris Johnson. He is fast as can be and has the instincts to back it up. A stud cover man with elite length for the position. But he's a terrible tackler and doesn't understand angles right now. He's going to be a project.

[UofMfan909]

8 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

David Dowell is interesting to me. He moves free and easily and can cover a lot of ground. While he isn't the biggest dude in the world, he doesn't shy away from contact. Purely a FS prospect because of his size, but he's got a lot of tools. He could be a sleeper

On potential he's there but his angles seem inconsistent to me. I thought him getting All B1G last year was due to INT numbers that were unsustainable due to "right place, right time". I don't think there's any chance he declares. 

I came to this thread because I saw his team/backfield-mate Justin Layne declared. Not a safety, but I think he's WAY underhyped. He shut down opponents top receivers all year despite being left on an island pretty often. Dennard and Waynes got hype when they declared early from the same scheme, but I think Layne is going to be the best NFL player of the MSU CBs this decade. 

[Ozzy]

17 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Any sleeper safeties in this class? I haven't really found any and the top S prospects that I have evaluated seem to be overrated, not underrated.

 

Jaquan Johnson is a stud in every area of S play.
Taylor Rapp is an incredible open field tackler, but is average at best in coverage and isn't hulking enough to play that "extra LB'er role" in the NFL.
JR Reed has great instincts, but he doesn't look very athletic or big.
Andrew Wingard is a tackling machine, but useless in coverage.
Sheldrick Redwine has great ball skills, but isn't a fully developed football player yet.
Marvell Tell is wildly inconsistent. I love his skill set, but he's not a very good tackler and is often caught with his pants down in coverage.
Chauncey Gardner is meh. He's more of a Nickel CB than he is a S. He's a great tackler and decent in underneath zone. Can't play man-man or deep zones very well.
Johnathan Abram is built like a tank and can make a lot of plays. I do like him, even as a deep high safety. He's not twitchy, but he's fast and has great instincts in run/pass reads.
Jojo McIntosh is purely a box safety. He cannot cover anyone deep. He's slow for a box safety, which leads me to believe he's a ST'er at the next level.
Lukas Denis is a guy I like. Great hips, great speed, great instincts in coverage, great ball skills. He is not effective in the run game and is a poor tackler though. Pure centerfielder.
Chase Hansen and Khaleke Hudson aren't athletic enough to start at safety in the NFL.
I like Tanner Muse, but understand that he's stiff. He's got great coverage instincts and elite size for the position, but shouldn't be drafted until later on day 3.
D'Cota Dixon makes plays all the time. But he's smaller and doesn't have great speed. Probably more of a box safety, but he's damn small to be doing that.
 

 

David Dowell is interesting to me. He moves free and easily and can cover a lot of ground. While he isn't the biggest dude in the world, he doesn't shy away from contact. Purely a FS prospect because of his size, but he's got a lot of tools. He could be a sleeper

 

I also really like Chris Johnson. He is fast as can be and has the instincts to back it up. A stud cover man with elite length for the position. But he's a terrible tackler and doesn't understand angles right now. He's going to be a project.

Chase Hansen I feel has transitioned very nicely to OLB and will be a good on possibly in the NFL at that position.  I loved the idea of him playing safety because of his size but I bet he ends up as a OLB who can cover and would be above average covering as a LB below average in coverage as a safety.  Khaleke Hudson I sure hope he does not come out early for the draft, he has had a really down year and has not showed up much, doubt he could even play safety in the NFL also, is basically a undersized linebacker and even that he has not been that productive with.  And Muse would be best to return to school, like you said he is stiff and really lets see him another year with less talent around him next year, has improved this year though compared to years before where at times he just looked bad out there. Here are some other guys I think have some potential, especially Thornhill.

 

 

Juan Thornhill Virginia - is a big time safety prospect I feel, has CB skills and is good in the box as well as a tackler.  Good at covering TEs at times, has made some big time plays this year on a much improved Virginia defense but they are not the same when he is not out there.  He is a sleeper because I feel he could easily be a 2nd round pick if he works out well.

 

Robbie Grimsley NDSU - I need to watch him more but has been around for awhile and is an effective player.  One of the leaders on that Bison defense and plays center field well but is limited a little athletically.

 

Jontrell Rocquemore Utah State RS - Is very smooth in coverage I feel, could come down and play in the slot if you wanted him too.  Is a very underrated player that not many talk about, he has good ability and has played well for awhile, nice footwork in coverage as well.

 

Mike Edwards Kentucky - Good safety overall and in the mid to late rounds could be a really nice selection.  Can do a lot of things back there and was key to that defense for sure.

 

Jacob Huff Minnesota - has had a fine year, impressive in the box tackling and can bring it on contact.  Is a late round pick but could be a nice selection late, like his toughness a lot.

 

Mark McLaurin Miss State - Had a little bit of a down year but made some big time plays last year as a junior in coverage.

 

Parker Baldwin SDSU - Tackling machine at times but might be just a special teams guy, really can get players down though and is tough, interesting in the box safety.

 

Garrett Davis Houston RS - Has been injured and in and out of the lineup but when he has been in there has made some big plays.  Has good length and athletic ability.

 

Jake Gervase Iowa - Solid player, does not make many mistakes and is a firm tackler.  Not great athletically though but could be a decent late round pick.

 

Donovan Wilson Texas A&M - Very good athlete, quick and nimble but has never really taken it to that next level I feel.  Splashes at times in terms of his playmaking but is not always consistent, but can move around and do a variety of things.

 

DeShawn Capers-Smith Texas A&M - Flashes big time athletic ability at times I think, played corner this year and did quite well in some games.  Good looking athlete and in coverage could be a decent FS possibly.  Have not really noticed much of him though outside of this season.

 

Jonathan Crawford Indiana - Has been around forever, never been that elite of a prospect but has coverage skills for sure, needs to get more physical in the run game and his top end speed is a little bit of a question.

 

 

 

[Scoundrel]

5 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Chase Hansen I feel has transitioned very nicely to OLB and will be a good on possibly in the NFL at that position.  I loved the idea of him playing safety because of his size but I bet he ends up as a OLB who can cover and would be above average covering as a LB below average in coverage as a safety.  Khaleke Hudson I sure hope he does not come out early for the draft, he has had a really down year and has not showed up much, doubt he could even play safety in the NFL also, is basically a undersized linebacker and even that he has not been that productive with.  And Muse would be best to return to school, like you said he is stiff and really lets see him another year with less talent around him next year, has improved this year though compared to years before where at times he just looked bad out there. Here are some other guys I think have some potential, especially Thornhill.

 

 

Juan Thornhill Virginia - is a big time safety prospect I feel, has CB skills and is good in the box as well as a tackler.  Good at covering TEs at times, has made some big time plays this year on a much improved Virginia defense but they are not the same when he is not out there.  He is a sleeper because I feel he could easily be a 2nd round pick if he works out well.

 

Robbie Grimsley NDSU - I need to watch him more but has been around for awhile and is an effective player.  One of the leaders on that Bison defense and plays center field well but is limited a little athletically.

 

Jontrell Rocquemore Utah State RS - Is very smooth in coverage I feel, could come down and play in the slot if you wanted him too.  Is a very underrated player that not many talk about, he has good ability and has played well for awhile, nice footwork in coverage as well.

 

Mike Edwards Kentucky - Good safety overall and in the mid to late rounds could be a really nice selection.  Can do a lot of things back there and was key to that defense for sure.

 

Jacob Huff Minnesota - has had a fine year, impressive in the box tackling and can bring it on contact.  Is a late round pick but could be a nice selection late, like his toughness a lot.

 

Mark McLaurin Miss State - Had a little bit of a down year but made some big time plays last year as a junior in coverage.

 

Parker Baldwin SDSU - Tackling machine at times but might be just a special teams guy, really can get players down though and is tough, interesting in the box safety.

 

Garrett Davis Houston RS - Has been injured and in and out of the lineup but when he has been in there has made some big plays.  Has good length and athletic ability.

 

Jake Gervase Iowa - Solid player, does not make many mistakes and is a firm tackler.  Not great athletically though but could be a decent late round pick.

 

Donovan Wilson Texas A&M - Very good athlete, quick and nimble but has never really taken it to that next level I feel.  Splashes at times in terms of his playmaking but is not always consistent, but can move around and do a variety of things.

 

DeShawn Capers-Smith Texas A&M - Flashes big time athletic ability at times I think, played corner this year and did quite well in some games.  Good looking athlete and in coverage could be a decent FS possibly.  Have not really noticed much of him though outside of this season.

 

Jonathan Crawford Indiana - Has been around forever, never been that elite of a prospect but has coverage skills for sure, needs to get more physical in the run game and his top end speed is a little bit of a question.

 

 

 

Thornhill is a guy who caught my attention as a possible convert to CB for a team like Seattle. He has the whole package at the position and his game reminds me a lot of Minkah Fitzpatrick. He is a very talented player and is what the league is looking for at S. 

[FinneasGage]

@BleedTheClock can you sell me on jaquan being more valuable than CGJ & Thornhill? 

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, FinneasGage said:

@BleedTheClock can you sell me on jaquan being more valuable than CGJ & Thornhill? 

Easily! Jaquan Johnson is going to be a superstar. His instincts in zone coverage are elite for a collegiate DB. He's got speed and lateral quickness, and is a very good run defender. Has great ball skills and a nose for the football, being part of several big turnovers over his career. He's solid in man coverage and doesn't miss tackles. He's regarded as the leader of that Miami Hurricane program and is squeaky clean from an off-field perspective. Teammates and coaches love him.

His negatives are that he isn't very big and he's been dealing with injuries all through his Miami career. He played mostly SS at Miami because of his ability to come down and blitz & be active in the run game, but he can easily handle responsibilities as a FS too. He's probably a better fit for a FS role in the NFL, as I don't think he'll be very helpful matched up on TE's given his size. Let him roam the middle of the field and rob throws--it's what he does better than any S in the country right now. Some of the INT's that this dude has had make my head spin. Like...how does he know these freaking routes? He's instinctually off the charts.

 

I haven't seen any Juan Thornhill yet, so can't comment on him. But CGJ is not even close to Jaquan IMO. Jaquan is more explosive, more active, more productive, better in coverage, and is a team captain type of player. I don't really like the Earl Thomas comparison because I don't think he has THAT kind of speed. He's certainly not at all slow, but he doesn't have the crazy range that Thomas did....but they're similar. Just Thomas is a tad faster.

I have Jaquan Johnson as a top 15 player in this draft class. I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I'd be shocked if he makes it out of the 20's, as other web sites have projected him to.

[Ozzy]

3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Easily! Jaquan Johnson is going to be a superstar. His instincts in zone coverage are elite for a collegiate DB. He's got speed and lateral quickness, and is a very good run defender. Has great ball skills and a nose for the football, being part of several big turnovers over his career. He's solid in man coverage and doesn't miss tackles. He's regarded as the leader of that Miami Hurricane program and is squeaky clean from an off-field perspective. Teammates and coaches love him.

His negatives are that he isn't very big and he's been dealing with injuries all through his Miami career. He played mostly SS at Miami because of his ability to come down and blitz & be active in the run game, but he can easily handle responsibilities as a FS too. He's probably a better fit for a FS role in the NFL, as I don't think he'll be very helpful matched up on TE's given his size. Let him roam the middle of the field and rob throws--it's what he does better than any S in the country right now. Some of the INT's that this dude has had make my head spin. Like...how does he know these freaking routes? He's instinctually off the charts.

 

I haven't seen any Juan Thornhill yet, so can't comment on him. But CGJ is not even close to Jaquan IMO. Jaquan is more explosive, more active, more productive, better in coverage, and is a team captain type of player. I don't really like the Earl Thomas comparison because I don't think he has THAT kind of speed. He's certainly not at all slow, but he doesn't have the crazy range that Thomas did....but they're similar. Just Thomas is a tad faster.

I have Jaquan Johnson as a top 15 player in this draft class. I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I'd be shocked if he makes it out of the 20's, as other web sites have projected him to.

I agree, Johnson is a better player than Thornhill.  I feel he has done it longer and has more of a upside.  I also agree he could easily play FS in the NFL with how firm he is in coverage and versatile, make him a very interesting safety prospect.  Is probably the best safety in the up coming draft, could maybe be Thompson on Alabama but Johnson is better in coverage.  He can come down in the box against the run, is solid as a tackler overall, can rush the passer, intercept passes and cause fumbles with strong hits despite being a smaller safety.  Sure does not have the wingspan others do but if he times out well in the 40 no question he will be a 1st round draft pick.  The kid is a playmaker and is the best playmaker at the position in the up coming draft.  Could easily have him as the best FS in the up coming draft and the best SS.  

[BleedTheClock]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Thompson on Alabama

I always forget about him for some reason. I like Thompson too, but you're right...he's solid in coverage, but he doesn't make a whole lot of plays. He's not a playmaking centerfielder, but he's also capable playing back there, if that makes sense.

[OneTwoSixFive]

On 12/15/2018 at 1:47 PM, Ozzy said:

Juan Thornhill Virginia - is a big time safety prospect I feel, has CB skills and is good in the box as well as a tackler.  Good at covering TEs at times, has made some big time plays this year on a much improved Virginia defense but they are not the same when he is not out there.  He is a sleeper because I feel he could easily be a 2nd round pick if he works out well.

After seeing you mention him, I've noticed Thornhill has been making a big rise on some boards. I noticed him appearing recently as a 1st round selection on one of the boards on the fanspeak generator. He has also been jumping up the Drafttek board (currently just jumped up 39 spots to rank 20th overall). People are taking notice.

[Ozzy]

7 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

After seeing you mention him, I've noticed Thornhill has been making a big rise on some boards. I noticed him appearing recently as a 1st round selection on one of the boards on the fanspeak generator. He has also been jumping up the Drafttek board (currently just jumped up 39 spots to rank 20th overall). People are taking notice.

I brought him up about week 7 of the college football season this year, did not notice much from him in years previous.  But hard to not take notice with how well he played and is ability to cover as a safety, I believe he did play corner the year before or at times, but I am glad he was a safety this year, he is more versatile that way.  I think he maybe has some late 1st round potential but all depends on team needs of course.  

[MSURacerDT55]

Lonnie Johnson Jr = underrated

[FinneasGage]

jaquan's little stature just kinda turned me off 

are you high on sheldrick @BleedTheClock...? I liked him a ton, looks like the most underrated guy at safety at the moment imo 

[BleedTheClock]

4 hours ago, FinneasGage said:

jaquan's little stature just kinda turned me off 

are you high on sheldrick @BleedTheClock...? I liked him a ton, looks like the most underrated guy at safety at the moment imo 

He's one of those guys that is just always in the right place at the right time. I don't think he's a fantastic athlete nor do I think he's some heat seeking missile in the run game, so I don't know where he's going to play in the NFL. He's an excellent zone defender and has great instincts. I really like him, but his physical numbers will probably end up being underwhelming. I have him as a 5th rounder right now. I have a hard time coming up with a good comparison for him.

[Ozzy]

11 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Lonnie Johnson Jr = underrated

I agree he is a solid prospect but it is all because of his length.  That arm length is impressive and he out played Westry this year another super long corner for Kentucky, I believe Johnson took his starting spot at times and Westry was a senior as well.  Johnson has not flashed as much over his career like Westry has in my opinion, Westry played as a freshman if I remember correct and did well even back then.  But the best corner no doubt on that Kentucky team to me is Derrick Baity, just as tall as those other guys, maybe not quite the arm length but has better ball skills and reaction time, also arguably more speed as well.

 

That is also why Derrek Thomas of Baylor will get some interest that length, along with a group of bigger around 6-1 corners in Amani Oruwariye, Michael Jackson, Xavier Crawford and others.