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2019 NFL Draft - Running Backs

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1 hour ago, IDOG_det said:

I definitely disagree on the speed. He ran a 10.61 100m in high school and actually set national records as a middle schooler in track. He was running in the same state as Nyheim Hines and was actually faster than him at the time. Hines stuck with track in college and ran a 4.38 "official" time at the combine, and the hand times had him at 4.31 at the combine. Love didn't stick with track, but he has pure speed.  A 10.64 in the 100m roughly converts to a 4.40 in the 40, so Love could easily match that 4.38 set by Hines. 

It's interesting to think about the wear on his body. This year he's had fewer carries. Do you think the heavy workload from last year is still having an impact on his body? Because we certainly saw an impact on it last year with the ankle injuries, but he played through those and was amazingly still very effective despite having to limp off the field after every other play.

 

27 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

His best bet is to be a situational back to start off, and when has he really had time to heal really or when has he really had the time to get back to 100%? As far as his speed, I know exactly what has been reported but I just don't see it, at all, I see quick, pitty pat feet but I don't see the 4.31, that's just me. When you saw Paris Campbell hit that corner against UM, you saw a 4.31 type of speed, when I see Love, I see 4.45, which isn't bad at all but certainly not 4.31.

The other part - do we see suddenness and burst when Love sees daylight?  Or does he have trouble seeing the gap?  

If Love has track speed, why isn't he showing it on-field?  It's only a guess, but one borne out by past experience - it usually means the vision or decisiveness isn't there.    Either way, I am VERY, VERY wary of projecting NFL elite success to Love.

I'll give my nod to @Counselor & @Jeezla for the touts on Henderson - since last year, I've been a David Montgomery believer.  And even though he's not been great, I think that's a reflection of the sad OL and supporting cast.  But I also can see Henderson is a better fit for today's NFL - the home run ability, with incredible decisiveness and explosion.  Nod to the guys above - Montgomery was on my radar since last year, Henderson wasn't anywhere near the same interest.   But looking back, it's definitely a skill set to get excited about.

If Anderson's off-field and medicals check out, I'm comfortable putting Henderson / Montgomery / Anderson in the top tier, in that order, with a HUGE if on the medicals (and the off-field incident from 2017 will raise Q's, especially coming from OKL and the climate we live in today).    Honestly, I'd be steering away from Love and hitting those 3 guys well ahead of Love, unless a more reassuring explanation presents itself. 

Edited by Broncofan

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Stanford has been the epitome of a successful gap scheme running game for over a decade.  Mike Bloomgren left to be the head coach at Rice. Stanford hired Kevin Carberry, who was an assistant to Bill Callahan for a few years, to replace him. Everything at Stanford was rooted in the gap scheme. It was damn near the identity of the program. Now, essentially overnight, they overturned all of that and are now an offense that predominately runs zone schemes. Zone schemes are fine, but every last offensive lineman there has been coaching and recruited for gap schemes. Every RB there, Love included, was coached and recruited for gap schemes. They all had to learn an entirely different offense that approaches the game with a completely different philosophy and uses different techniques. The Stanford OL this year has been the worst performing OL they've had in years, but it's not from a lack of talent. In fact, this might be the most purely talented offensive line they've had, yet it has been a poorly performing OL because they're essentially learning their offense on the fly. If you watch Stanford play, they will run a lot of zone in the first half, then make some adjustments in the second half and sneak in a gap play here and there, and run some zone schemes/hybrid schemes that basically function like a gap scheme. The USC game is a good example. They ran 100% zone in the first half from what I saw. In the second half they went to a few gap plays, ran some pin & pull, and Bryce Love even broke off a long run on a toss play, which is technically a zone scheme but features a down block with a puller to that side, which is a big part of gap schemes. Bryce Love wasn't very successful when they ran zone. He was successful when they ran a handful of gap schemes and other plays that basically function like a gap scheme. 

@MSURacerDT55 I was hoping someone would have picked up on that. I haven't seen anyone (on here, on twitter, anywhere) mention the scheme change as a reason why Love hasn't played to his potential this year. I've seen a lot of people talk about his decline in production, but I haven't seen anyone actually find a real reason to explain it. I was just curious to see if anyone had noticed it because it stood out to me when I've watched Stanford play this season. I'll be very curious to see if any NFL teams actually notice it. Any team that likes to use gap schemes or schemes that function similarly should realize that they could get a steal with him. He was hyped as a 1st round talent before the season and rumors now suggest that he'll be drafted early day 3.

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I don't think Bryce Love is some burner like people think he is. He's certainly fast, but he's not elite NFL fast.

He is, however, underrated as an interior runner. He runs hard between the tackles and has excellent vision. He's going to be good, but not great. I was never overly impressed with him and was roasted for this opinion before the season started. Especially the "average speed" take.

As to what @MSURacerDT55 was saying, I see Love running close to a 4.45 as well. The 4.31 thing would shock the crap out of me. 4.45 is plenty fast, but it's not game breaking speed.

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2 hours ago, lod01 said:

Chiefs have an opening at RB.

I mean, we love talent first & foremost, but whoever lands there is going to get a TON of run to go 1.1 in dynasty rookie drafts.   And it's hard to blame them.  

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On 11/28/2018 at 5:21 PM, IDOG_det said:

Stanford has been the epitome of a successful gap scheme running game for over a decade.  Mike Bloomgren left to be the head coach at Rice. Stanford hired Kevin Carberry, who was an assistant to Bill Callahan for a few years, to replace him. Everything at Stanford was rooted in the gap scheme. It was damn near the identity of the program. Now, essentially overnight, they overturned all of that and are now an offense that predominately runs zone schemes. Zone schemes are fine, but every last offensive lineman there has been coaching and recruited for gap schemes. Every RB there, Love included, was coached and recruited for gap schemes. They all had to learn an entirely different offense that approaches the game with a completely different philosophy and uses different techniques. The Stanford OL this year has been the worst performing OL they've had in years, but it's not from a lack of talent. In fact, this might be the most purely talented offensive line they've had, yet it has been a poorly performing OL because they're essentially learning their offense on the fly. If you watch Stanford play, they will run a lot of zone in the first half, then make some adjustments in the second half and sneak in a gap play here and there, and run some zone schemes/hybrid schemes that basically function like a gap scheme. The USC game is a good example. They ran 100% zone in the first half from what I saw. In the second half they went to a few gap plays, ran some pin & pull, and Bryce Love even broke off a long run on a toss play, which is technically a zone scheme but features a down block with a puller to that side, which is a big part of gap schemes. Bryce Love wasn't very successful when they ran zone. He was successful when they ran a handful of gap schemes and other plays that basically function like a gap scheme. 

@MSURacerDT55 I was hoping someone would have picked up on that. I haven't seen anyone (on here, on twitter, anywhere) mention the scheme change as a reason why Love hasn't played to his potential this year. I've seen a lot of people talk about his decline in production, but I haven't seen anyone actually find a real reason to explain it. I was just curious to see if anyone had noticed it because it stood out to me when I've watched Stanford play this season. I'll be very curious to see if any NFL teams actually notice it. Any team that likes to use gap schemes or schemes that function similarly should realize that they could get a steal with him. He was hyped as a 1st round talent before the season and rumors now suggest that he'll be drafted early day 3.

Good call on that.  It is sometimes hard to tell with the view one has on TV and exact blocking scheme.  Would be a lot more meaningful of a view behind the QB or even better an aerial shot.  If they did indeed change that is stupid, like you said those guys were not recruited to do that especially some of their guards.  They have struggled I feel as an offensive line and just simply do not look the same as they did before.  Not the same Stanford and no clue why they would change unless they just want to become an offense similar to all of the other ones out there.  I think they had something different and unique before with that power run game.

 

As a RB one should be able to run regardless of the scheme of blocking.  If a runner is that dependent on the scheme then they obviously have a weakness in their game.  But the OL is important and clearly these guys have not taken to this new scheme that well, honestly it was a lot more fun watching them play last year when they showed some power but at least this explains some of the lack of success they have had possibly. Love is ideally supposed to be a big play threat, quick and with a good burst.  Able to get big yards and big plays, if he cannot do that then there is not much overwhelming power to his game and his legs and ridiculously skinny for a RB.  His injury history and overall frame is probably a bigger issue than his current lack of success in college this season.  It is surprising, the kid has such great character and is such a leader but they as an offense kind of fell flat this year especially on the ground.  

 

There is also the fact that he has 100 less rush attempts than the year before.  Sure he missed a few games this year, 3 but was injured as well last season missing one game but injured through a few near the end of last season.     It is also the first time they have had a 3000 passer since 2011 with Andrew Luck.  Odd thing is they had 378 passing attempts this year but 363 passing attempts last year and far less passing yards, so the offense did not hold the ball nearly as much or sustain drives this season and relied on big pass plays to score since it was not coming in the run game.  The offense has become more pass centered with the success they have had with the fine TEs and WRs they got as well.

 

Good call though and interesting perspective on that, I agree one could get a steal with him in the 2nd or 3rd round maybe.    In terms of a smaller back who can take a hit and make you miss, Darrell Henderson, Devin Singletary, Myles Gaskin and Karan Higdon this year have all showed a better ability to do that than Love has.  Still one kind of gives the benefit of last year to Love and how he looked and the potential of maybe being that type of player again.  But the year Higdon has had is very impressive and that kid runs yard, Gaskin has been crazy consistent over four straight years in a row, Singletary is a jitterbug who can really move his feet and cut and Henderson is arguably a 1st round pick with how he has looked with his power, quickness and speed.  

 

 

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Chiefs might be able to trade back and pick up Anderson in the 2nd or keep that first and possibly get Montgomery. Either of them would do awesome things in that Chiefs offense.

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5 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Chiefs might be able to trade back and pick up Anderson in the 2nd or keep that first and possibly get Montgomery. Either of them would do awesome things in that Chiefs offense.

I think they will repeat the KHunt route and go late Day 2 / early Day 3 for their guy.   

Let's face it, KC needs more playmakers on D - and the RB depth actually fits Day 2 far more.   I would be absolutely shocked if KC went RB Rd1.   It's not necessary at their draft spot.

Obviously I love Montgomery, Henderson and Anderson, and I like Harris.  But I can pretty much guarantee 2 of them will be there where KC picks Rd2 (if Henderson doesn't declare, then the top end pool gets thinner).  With 2 picks in Rd2, I'd bet that's where they go RB, and if the RB's fall, then maybe they might even wait.  RB is so devalued unless you are special, and I don't know that anyone here will even get the Michel-type love.

Edited by Broncofan

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Watching more and more I see some Phillip Lindsay in Henderson’s game. Henderson has greater explosion and long speed however. 

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That didn't take long. Darrell Henderson 62 yard td run.

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lol add another td run. That's 2 in about 45 seconds.

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Yeah Darrell Henderson reminds me of a slightly faster MJD.

Edited by BleedTheClock

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4 hours ago, Broncofan said:

I think they will repeat the KHunt route and go late Day 2 / early Day 3 for their guy.   

Let's face it, KC needs more playmakers on D - and the RB depth actually fits Day 2 far more.   I would be absolutely shocked if KC went RB Rd1.   It's not necessary at their draft spot.

Obviously I love Montgomery, Henderson and Anderson, and I like Harris.  But I can pretty much guarantee 2 of them will be there where KC picks Rd2 (if Henderson doesn't declare, then the top end pool gets thinner).  With 2 picks in Rd2, I'd bet that's where they go RB, and if the RB's fall, then maybe they might even wait.  RB is so devalued unless you are special, and I don't know that anyone here will even get the Michel-type love.

It was for the sake of discussion that I brought it up. But your right I have a feeling they go after Wilkins, Lawrence, Simmons or w/e drops there.

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11 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

It was for the sake of discussion that I brought it up. But your right I have a feeling they go after Wilkins, Lawrence, Simmons or w/e drops there.

I mean, anything is possible, but yeah, their history with RB's suggests they believe in the "RB can wait" philosophy - probably part of the reason why they think they can part ways with K-Hunt, too.   

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3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

I mean, anything is possible, but yeah, their history with RB's suggests they believe in the "RB can wait" philosophy - probably part of the reason why they think they can part ways with K-Hunt, too.   

If only the Seahawks had this same philosophy.

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