2019 NFL Draft - Offensive Line

[goldfishwars]

16 hours ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

Yeah I rewatched him and moved his grade up the 1st Round, albeit I think he only fits in a zone scheme.  Haven't watched the Clemson game the strength issues are not BS as evidenced by his game vs the Texas A&M DT tandem.  Still a phenomenal zone center but I think he's limited to that scheme.

His lateral range is special, I’d love to see him in a team that plays a lot of outside zone and stretch that can regularly utilise that strength.

 

[SmittyBacall]

21 hours ago, IDOG_det said:

Dillard isn't even a top 5 athlete on the OL in this class. 

Who is?

[Duffman57]

22 hours ago, IDOG_det said:

Lmao this is ridiculous. Jonah is easily a top 5 talent. Dillard isn't even a top 5 athlete on the OL in this class. 

I don't agree with Dillard not being a special athlete. But as a player he has more developing to do, where as Jonah is a ready made top LT in my eyes with all the traits you want sans arm length.

[IDOG_det]

55 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Who is?

Jonah Williams, Greg Little, Cody Ford, Garrett Bradbury, Chuma Edoga, Martez Ivey, Beau Benzshawel, Michael Deiter, Tyler Jones, Joshua Miles, Devon Johnson, Tytus Howard... That's just the guys off the top of my head. There are plenty more players who I could also make an argument for being on a similar level. Dillard is lacking in the most important aspects of offensive line athleticism: power and recovery. Dillard is going to test well but when you turn on the tape it really doesn't matter. His strength is underdeveloped for what is needed at the NFL level and he doesn't have great recovery ability. Those are usually things players have by now, so there's little hope he develops in those areas. 

[IDOG_det]

16 minutes ago, Duffman57 said:

I don't agree with Dillard not being a special athlete. But as a player he has more developing to do, where as Jonah is a ready made top LT in my eyes with all the traits you want sans arm length.

Jonah's arm length is fine 

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, IDOG_det said:

Dillard is going to test well

I think he runs sub 5.0 on the 40 time. Takes a special athlete to do that at 300+ pounds. I don't see many other OT's hitting marks like that, including Jonah Williams. I understand sometimes it doesn't translate to the field, but I can't agree with you that he isn't a great athlete and a stout pass blocker. He's weak in the run game for sure, but he has a strong body and just needs to learn how to leverage himself better. He's already a rock in pass protection and mirrors speed with ease and shuts down power even easier. I don't know why you don't like Dillard aside from the fact that he doesn't bury people in the run game.

[IDOG_det]

54 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I think he runs sub 5.0 on the 40 time. Takes a special athlete to do that at 300+ pounds

But how does that translate to OL play? It only translates to firing out on the goaline. That's it. And he's not even that great at that. The 40 isn't a great measurement of what a good OL athlete is, so it makes no sense to anoint him as a great athlete for OL play based on that. You learn a lot more about OL athleticism on the field than you do at the combine. 

[Jeezla]

Any opinions on ND OG Alex Bars or UNC OT Will Sweet?

Haven't watched either guy, but wondering if they are worth my time.

[TVScout]

23 hours ago, IDOG_det said:

But how does that translate to OL play? It only translates to firing out on the goaline. That's it. And he's not even that great at that. The 40 isn't a great measurement of what a good OL athlete is, so it makes no sense to anoint him as a great athlete for OL play based on that. You learn a lot more about OL athleticism on the field than you do at the combine. 

40 time is a lot more important for OT than most people realize: https://www.ourlads.com/pdfs/PhysAttributes_NFLSuccess.pdf

[BleedTheClock]

22 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Any opinions on ND OG Alex Bars or UNC OT Will Sweet?

Haven't watched either guy, but wondering if they are worth my time.

Yes. Bars is a future average starter at RG and Will Sweet has a world of potential. He's a project, but one that could be a sensation in time.

[IDOG_det]

41 minutes ago, TVScout said:

40 time is a lot more important for OT than most people realize: https://www.ourlads.com/pdfs/PhysAttributes_NFLSuccess.pdf

I understand that people have found a correlation. However, it is not a strong enough correlation to throw away other, more valuable, evidence. That study you linked doesn't show that the player gets better as the 40 gets faster, it shows that 66% of starting tackles ran a 5.26 or faster. That isn't a very high bar to set. Many of them will run 5.26 or faster, and even then you can count on 34% of the starters being slower than that (if those numbers are to be treated as the rule, which they aren't considering its a sample size of 41).

[reamer]

50 minutes ago, IDOG_det said:

I understand that people have found a correlation. However, it is not a strong enough correlation to throw away other, more valuable, evidence. That study you linked doesn't show that the player gets better as the 40 gets faster, it shows that 66% of starting tackles ran a 5.26 or faster. That isn't a very high bar to set. Many of them will run 5.26 or faster, and even then you can count on 34% of the starters being slower than that (if those numbers are to be treated as the rule, which they aren't considering its a sample size of 41).

This seems apropos here: 

 

I copied the rest of the Twitter thread below:

 

Quote

The OL position isn’t easy to evaluate...it’s easy to turn to numbers because typically your best blockers are your best Athletes. In my opinion it’s simple, OL is like a form of art. We all have different tools and abilities..

While my game is played by manipulating angles and understanding where the QB will be in his drop, some get to a spot and react from there. The reason that the numbers in the drills are so “valuable” is because they believe you have to be a “athlete” to react to counter moves and capture LBs at the second level. In my short time of playing the position I can tell you that understanding your body and angles is more important than your foot quickness.

When drafting a OL you’d think because he bends and moves a certain way he’d be successful but without the understanding of your abilities you will get lost in the shuffle. I’m not the best bender but I’ve got long arms. I understand that if a defender goes to dip I use my length to help me recover. A lot of OL rely on there athleticism instead of developing a set of fundamentals you are confident in. The DL in football are only getting smarter, they recognize those that try to use athleticism to there advantage.

With it being combine week many evaluators will write off several OL because of his “lack of athleticism”. I’m here to tell you to pay attention to his film, figure out how he manipulates his blocks based off his tools, and don’t count him out cause he isn’t a Super athlete.

P.S. Draft more Pricks at the position, it’s good for society to have them on a field and not at home.

 

[IDOG_det]

On 2/25/2019 at 9:06 AM, IDOG_det said:

Jonah's arm length is fine 

Told ya 

[TVScout]

23 hours ago, IDOG_det said:

I understand that people have found a correlation. However, it is not a strong enough correlation to throw away other, more valuable, evidence.

What other more valuable evidence? Mind you the Combine is about work out numbers.

[IDOG_det]

11 hours ago, TVScout said:

What other more valuable evidence? Mind you the Combine is about work out numbers.

Film and performance in Olympic lifts are far more valuable in determining an OLs athleticism. Many teams also use a threshold of 4.77 in the short shuttle.