Ozzy Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, CWood21 said: Granted I haven't really dug into the two of them significantly, but this feels like we're having this same discussion year after year. I do not agree with that. These are the guys in the past six draft classes as first round picks at OT. I would take Jonah Williams over all of them arguably and possibly even Greg Little but not as clear cut on that. Ronnie Stanley and Conklin were very solid coming into the league no doubt, and Taylor Lewan had potential but did give up some sacks in his college career. But again I feel Williams and Little are as good as any of these 1st rounders were no doubt. Kolton Miller was a great project this past year and could be a fine player but needs some work and is not as finished of a prospect as say Williams is. Mike McGlinchey Kolton Miller Isaiah Wynn Garrett Bolles Ryan Ramczyk Ronnie Stanley Jack Conklin Taylor Decker Germain Ifedi Brandon Scherff Ereck Flowers Andrus Peat Cedric Ogbuehi DJ Humphries Greg Robinson Taylor Lewan Jake Matthews Ja'Wuan James Eric Fisher Luke Joeckel Lane Johnson DJ Fluker Justin Pugh Coming out of college I would take these guys over Williams and Little but had to go back farther for that. Matt Kalil sure has not totally worked out in the NFL but was a great prospect and a hell of a player in college, injuries have hurt him a lot. And Tyron Smith is similar to Greg Little in the fact both are so large and athletic. Matt Kalil Tyron Smith Russell Okung Trent Williams Edited November 13, 2018 by Ozzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 16 hours ago, CWood21 said: Granted I haven't really dug into the two of them significantly, but this feels like we're having this same discussion year after year. Disagree. The last two tackle classes were horrible and everyone knew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 19 hours ago, Ozzy said: I do not agree with that. These are the guys in the past six draft classes as first round picks at OT. I would take Jonah Williams over all of them arguably and possibly even Greg Little but not as clear cut on that. Ronnie Stanley and Conklin were very solid coming into the league no doubt, and Taylor Lewan had potential but did give up some sacks in his college career. But again I feel Williams and Little are as good as any of these 1st rounders were no doubt. Kolton Miller was a great project this past year and could be a fine player but needs some work and is not as finished of a prospect as say Williams is. That wasn't the argument you made. You made the argument that he two of them are some of the best to come out, i.e. the best of the best. Going back the last five years, these are the tackles I've had first round grades on: Kolton Miller (2018), Mike McGlinchey (2018), Garrett Bolles (2017), Ryan Ramczyk (2017), Cam Robinson (2017), Laremy Tunsil (2016), Ronnie Stanley (2016), Shon Coleman (2016), Jason Spriggs (2016), Brandon Schereff (2015), La'El Collins (2015), TJ Clemmings (2015), Jake Fisher (2015), Andrus Peat (2015), Greg Robinson (2014), Jake Matthews (2014), and Taylor Lewan (2014). I'd make an argument they're on a similar tier as guys like Laremy Tunsil and Ronnie Stanley. I think we've just been rather dry on OL in the last few years, and these OL prospects are getting inflated because of it. Not that they are bad prospects by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 5 hours ago, CWood21 said: That wasn't the argument you made. You made the argument that he two of them are some of the best to come out, i.e. the best of the best. Going back the last five years, these are the tackles I've had first round grades on: Kolton Miller (2018), Mike McGlinchey (2018), Garrett Bolles (2017), Ryan Ramczyk (2017), Cam Robinson (2017), Laremy Tunsil (2016), Ronnie Stanley (2016), Shon Coleman (2016), Jason Spriggs (2016), Brandon Schereff (2015), La'El Collins (2015), TJ Clemmings (2015), Jake Fisher (2015), Andrus Peat (2015), Greg Robinson (2014), Jake Matthews (2014), and Taylor Lewan (2014). I'd make an argument they're on a similar tier as guys like Laremy Tunsil and Ronnie Stanley. I think we've just been rather dry on OL in the last few years, and these OL prospects are getting inflated because of it. Not that they are bad prospects by any means. That is possible some are being inflated a little bit I agree, but I do not feel Williams or Little are considered 1st round prospects because they are just the best of the group in the up coming year. But sure at times the best of the group gets selected higher because it is the best of the group, and if that is a position of need then teams will go what way. Again I would take Williams especially or Little over any of those guys I listed before, some it would be a close call but most it would be easily taking them over the others. Thus they are arguably the best OT prospects to come into the NFL in 5 or so years I feel, that was my point. I would take Little over Tunsil and Tunsil was a great prospect coming out and I would take Williams over Stanley as well. But looking at all the classes FR, SOPH, JR and SR class groups of OT, Jonah Williams and Greg Little are by far and away the best regardless of the class across the board. Is it a bad group of offensive lineman in general across the nation, sure maybe but I feel Williams and Little are quite legit. I have them now as both top 10 picks potentially but that could change will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Someone whose better at evaluating OL take a look at Max Scharpring out of Northern Illinois. That means you @IDOG_det. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) On 11/27/2018 at 1:49 AM, CWood21 said: Someone whose better at evaluating OL take a look at Max Scharpring out of Northern Illinois. That means you @IDOG_det. I just came in here to post about him. He's got great length and knows how to use it. He jars people with his punch in pass protection and uses excellent angles to wall off defenders in the run and pass game. I really like him and think he's going to be a starting RT in the NFL for a long time. I wish he had more power in his run blocking because he jars people so well with his pass rush punch, but he doesn't seem like he destroys people in the run game. Position blocks quite a bit. Oversets and turns his shoulders a little bit too much in pass protection, but hasn't been vulnerable to inside counters despite this. He should just continue to drop back instead of running with the pass rusher. I really like him and don't think he needs to move inside to tackle, like I've seen some suggest. He seems capable of playing on the edge and handling speed rushers. He hasn't really seen a freaky speed rusher to my knowledge, but his movement skills are promising for a guy his size. I think he ends up going in the late 2nd or early 3rd round pending his testing numbers. Mitchell Schwartz wouldn't be a bad comp. Edited November 30, 2018 by BleedTheClock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 16 hours ago, BleedTheClock said: I just came in here to post about him. He's got great length and knows how to use it. He jars people with his punch in pass protection and uses excellent angles to wall off defenders in the run and pass game. I really like him and think he's going to be a starting RT in the NFL for a long time. I wish he had more power in his run blocking because he jars people so well with his pass rush punch, but he doesn't seem like he destroys people in the run game. Position blocks quite a bit. Oversets and turns his shoulders a little bit too much in pass protection, but hasn't been vulnerable to inside counters despite this. He should just continue to drop back instead of running with the pass rusher. I really like him and don't think he needs to move inside to tackle, like I've seen some suggest. He seems capable of playing on the edge and handling speed rushers. He hasn't really seen a freaky speed rusher to my knowledge, but his movement skills are promising for a guy his size. I think he ends up going in the late 2nd or early 3rd round pending his testing numbers. Mitchell Schwartz wouldn't be a bad comp. Good analysis. He's someone I really want the Texans to grab in round 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 On 11/26/2018 at 10:49 PM, CWood21 said: Someone whose better at evaluating OL take a look at Max Scharpring out of Northern Illinois. That means you @IDOG_det. I mentioned him earlier on the first page. Really like him in the second round or so. Struggled against Iowa, but honestly, no real shame there. Has had some really nice games. I feel like he's very efficient in his sets and movements, seems to play the position with more intelligence than natural athleticism or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDOG_det Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 On 11/27/2018 at 1:49 AM, CWood21 said: Someone whose better at evaluating OL take a look at Max Scharpring out of Northern Illinois. That means you @IDOG_det. Watched a lot of his 2017 tape before the season, wasn't much of a fan. Fantastic tools, great size, well built, great athlete, wingspan looks ridiculous, etc. He doesn't know how to use it though. I only watched one 2018 game so far but it looks like more of the same. Zero technique in the run game, especially on any double-teams. Stance is bad, comes out of his stance way too high, then because he's too high he can't drive the defender and, at that point, it doesn't matter if he can get to the LB because the play is likely going to be dead at the LOS. It's called a "same-foot same-shoulder" technique. Need to stay square to the LOS (as best as possible), split the defender's crotch with your second step, drive off that foot, and use your shoulder as the point of contact to extend and drive into the defender with triple extension. The outside arm should stay free and the defender should be driven down far enough to make the reach block easy for the other OL on the double-team. Scharping doesn't do any of that. He turns almost immediately, he doesn't drive into the defender, and he doesn't create any real vertical movement of the defender to help out the other OL make his block. He uses no technique and gets by on his athletic ability, which won't work out well for him in the NFL facing defensive linemen who are better athletes. The same thing pretty much goes for his pass set. It really isn't much of a pass set. It's more or less just him dropping back and hoping the defender will run into him. He isn't setting to a specific spot, he isn't staying square, he isn't using any real technique with his hands, his stance is also an issue for his pass set, he gets "outside of the cylinder" which basically means he's setting himself up for ligament damage if he doesn't fix his set (Luke Joeckel is a good example of someone who did the same and paid the price). Just a lot of issues and that's just from what I saw in 2017 and saw again from one tape in 2018. His athleticism would be well suited for a team that likes to run a lot of zone. The Rams would be a good spot for him to sit and learn behind Whitworth. They'd also be a good fit because they run a ton of zone and basically only run play action so he wouldn't have to take as many true pass sets. His tools will get him over-drafted, probably in the 2nd or 3rd. I would want a day one contributor/starter in round 2 and I would want someone I could rely on as a 2nd-year starter in a 3rd round pick. Scharping looks like he will be a multi-year project. Prospects like him should go in the 4th or 5th round with the intention of being sat and developed over a long period of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 18 hours ago, Forge said: I mentioned him earlier on the first page. Really like him in the second round or so. Struggled against Iowa, but honestly, no real shame there. Has had some really nice games. I feel like he's very efficient in his sets and movements, seems to play the position with more intelligence than natural athleticism or anything. He handled Maxx Crosby, and Crosby is one of my fave round 4+ DE prospects. I think Scharping a 3rd/4th rounder. Don't like him as much as Alaric Jackson, but wouldn't be upset if my Eagles drafted him in the 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 1, 2018 Author Share Posted December 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jeezla said: He handled Maxx Crosby, and Crosby is one of my fave round 4+ DE prospects. I think Scharping a 3rd/4th rounder. Don't like him as much as Alaric Jackson, but wouldn't be upset if my Eagles drafted him in the 4th. He did well against Brian Burns as well, and Burns is probably a first rounder. I think he'll go in round 2/3, personally. I'm really intrigued by him for the 49ers as the OT to groom to eventually replace Staley in some capacity (either by moving to LT himself, or heading to RT and letting McG take LT) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 On 11/14/2018 at 5:07 AM, BleedTheClock said: Disagree. The last two tackle classes were horrible and everyone knew it. Mike McGlinchey says 'hi'. Granted, the rest of the OT class last year may be horrible...but McG is doing quite well. Initially shocked at that pick by my 9ers, I like it very much, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 32 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said: Mike McGlinchey says 'hi'. Granted, the rest of the OT class last year may be horrible...but McG is doing quite well. Initially shocked at that pick by my 9ers, I like it very much, now. Finding a solid RT doesn't make an entire draft look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: Finding a solid RT doesn't make an entire draft look good. He's already grading out better than solid, but I did admit he was an exception and not the rule to last year's OT class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Any thoughts on Dalton Risner, specifically as a RT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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