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AFlaccoSeagulls

Let's talk about Taysom Hill and gadget players

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3 minutes ago, Dome said:

I think Tim Tebow is a far better comparison than Cam Newton. He’s reminded me of Tebow since day 1.

Cam is a great athlete that decided to be a QB. Hill and Tebow are great athletes who know how to play QB... there is a subtle difference lol 

I'd say Cam is a great athlete that can actually play QB.  Hill and Tebow are great athletes that want to play QB.  

But in Hill's case, I think he just wants to be on the field, and Tebow should have had that attitude.

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1 minute ago, Jlowe22 said:

I'd say Cam is a great athlete that can actually play QB.  Hill and Tebow are great athletes that want to play QB.  

But in Hill's case, I think he just wants to be on the field, and Tebow should have had that attitude.

Bingo. Hill is what Tim Tebow could have been.

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53 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

The Saints offense this year has what I would consider the most unique and versatile gadget weapon in the NFL - Taysom Hill.

Hill is listed as a QB, but he runs a 4.46, tackles, blocks and can pass. He plays as a QB, RB, TE, and WR on offense in his packages. He plays as the up-man in the punt formation (and is routinely used on fakes, to throw or pass), and also plays on the kickoff team.

I think you're exaggerating things a little bit here. You say he's routinely used on fakes to throw or pass, but it's been twice, one pass, one run. He's attempted one pass on offense that was incomplete. You say he plays at TE and WR, and maybe that's the case, but he has one catch for -4 yards. He's really not getting used in that many ways. At least not successfully, if he is. He's basically a wildcat QB and a punt fake specialist. He's Pat White with better blocking. Tebow with a willingness to not play QB. 2009 Ronnie Brown with less experience at RB.

There are far more versatile and unique players used in varying roles that also happen to be great at a core position. OBJ, Tyreek, Cohen, Kamara, heck, even Albert Wilson was doing a ton of creative things for Miami.

You call him unique and versatile, but so far he's really more of a one trick pony, IMO. He's a wildcat/option QB. That's it so far. We can talk about versatility when he actually shows to be a threat as a passer or receiver on offense. Heck, I'd settle for him being productive as a return man (24.3 per return is pretty mediocre.)

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1 minute ago, Jakuvious said:

I think you're exaggerating things a little bit here. You say he's routinely used on fakes to throw or pass, but it's been twice, one pass, one run. He's attempted one pass on offense that was incomplete. You say he plays at TE and WR, and maybe that's the case, but he has one catch for -4 yards. He's really not getting used in that many ways. At least not successfully, if he is. He's basically a wildcat QB and a punt fake specialist. He's Pat White with better blocking. Tebow with a willingness to not play QB. 2009 Ronnie Brown with less experience at RB.

There are far more versatile and unique players used in varying roles that also happen to be great at a core position. OBJ, Tyreek, Cohen, Kamara, heck, even Albert Wilson was doing a ton of creative things for Miami.

You call him unique and versatile, but so far he's really more of a one trick pony, IMO. He's a wildcat/option QB. That's it so far. We can talk about versatility when he actually shows to be a threat as a passer or receiver on offense. Heck, I'd settle for him being productive as a return man (24.3 per return is pretty mediocre.)

Mostly I was using those positions as places he's lined up. The original SB Nation article I quoted has an example of him blocking as an in-line TE on a goal line play. I understand he's not a proficient passer and not a proficient pass catcher - he's primarily used to supplement the "standard" running game, as most gadget players are. However, where I see the most versatility is that by having him on the field, you don't have to run it, and he can do more things for you than simply run the ball (IE: block). 

He's Tim Tebow but if Tim Tebow could run a 4.4 and wasn't selfish. And when he's placed into an offense like the Saints, it allows them to expand their playbook a ton.

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8 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

I think you're exaggerating things a little bit here. You say he's routinely used on fakes to throw or pass, but it's been twice, one pass, one run. He's attempted one pass on offense that was incomplete. You say he plays at TE and WR, and maybe that's the case, but he has one catch for -4 yards. He's really not getting used in that many ways. At least not successfully, if he is. He's basically a wildcat QB and a punt fake specialist. He's Pat White with better blocking. Tebow with a willingness to not play QB. 2009 Ronnie Brown with less experience at RB.

There are far more versatile and unique players used in varying roles that also happen to be great at a core position. OBJ, Tyreek, Cohen, Kamara, heck, even Albert Wilson was doing a ton of creative things for Miami.

You call him unique and versatile, but so far he's really more of a one trick pony, IMO. He's a wildcat/option QB. That's it so far. We can talk about versatility when he actually shows to be a threat as a passer or receiver on offense. Heck, I'd settle for him being productive as a return man (24.3 per return is pretty mediocre.)

No one is used the way Taysom Hill is used. He's a stud coverage guy on ST, he's great running the ball, he's a shockingly efficient blocker. Saints aren't going to open up the playbook in the regular season. I guarantee he's throwing the ball in the playoffs on some of these RPO plays. They're setting him up for trick plays come the playoffs.

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31 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

What Dan Kendra should have been....

Holy hell, a Dan Kendra reference. It's 1994 all over again.

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3 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

No one is used the way Taysom Hill is used. He's a stud coverage guy on ST, he's great running the ball, he's a shockingly efficient blocker. Saints aren't going to open up the playbook in the regular season. I guarantee he's throwing the ball in the playoffs on some of these RPO plays. They're setting him up for trick plays come the playoffs.

Definitely. I'm 100% sure Payton hasn't shown everything yet. I keep waiting for him to pull up and make a throw. It's coming.

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People are fully realizing his importance on ST yet. He's had some BIG tackles on kickoff returns and even returned a kick himself for like 40 or 50+ yards. I'd like to see him run the read-option a little better, he keeps the ball like 99% of the time. Yes its worked, but there was a play against the Redskins where if he handed it to Kamara, Kamara would've been gone for a 60 yard TD. Instead, Hill ended up with a 4 yard run and a crucial first on 3rd down. It will be interesting to see if Payton is waiting for teams to really start crashing on the ball when Hill is in to let him throw it deep, but I'm sure those will eventually find their way into the playbook.

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There are no other players like Taysom Hill. He's unique currently. Not sure why people are listing scat backs and wr/rb hybrids. Hill is 6'2 220 and a true swiss army knife.

I think we'll see it mimicked in the future. It saves teams roster spots.

 

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He has thrown the ball.  And it should have been a TD.  They're just not doing it often.  Teams can't just completely ignore the pass.  They can definitely lean heavy against the run, but Taysom is a strong runner, and fights for every yard.  He's not sliding and going out of bounds to avoid contact.  He's picking up some well earned first downs.

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51 minutes ago, doomer said:

I think we'll see it mimicked in the future. It saves teams roster spots.

Eh...back in 1995, people said the same thing about Kordell "Slash" Stewart, who was considerably more productive than Hill as a WR, RB, KR/PR (and eventually turned into a serviceable QB). 

It's novel, but it never caught on after that. You'll see 2-3 guys come around and get noticed, but it's a parlor trick at best.

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Even if his usefulness on the offensive side of the ball fades he is still a stud ST player. 

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1 hour ago, ET80 said:

Eh...back in 1995, people said the same thing about Kordell "Slash" Stewart, who was considerably more productive than Hill as a WR, RB, KR/PR (and eventually turned into a serviceable QB). 

It's novel, but it never caught on after that. You'll see 2-3 guys come around and get noticed, but it's a parlor trick at best.

“Considerably more productive” in what way?

Hill has a better YPC right now, than Stewart ever finished with.... not that is the end all be all by any means... but Hills first year as a member of the offense is pretty damn comparable to Stewart’s IMO. Could definitely be missing something.

That said, I don’t expect hill to EVER develop into a full time QB like Slash did, nor do I expect gadget players to take the NFL by storm.

Im just not sure what we’re using to compare them.... cause looking at their stats in their first year(s) and I don’t see Stewart being “considerably” more productive at the same point in his career. Then again ALL I have to base it on is stats, and they don’t always tell the whole story. I was 4 when he was a rookie :D

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