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AFlaccoSeagulls

Let's talk about Taysom Hill and gadget players

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1 hour ago, Dome said:

“Considerably more productive” in what way?

Hill has a better YPC right now, than Stewart ever finished with.... not that is the end all be all by any means... but Hills first year as a member of the offense is pretty damn comparable to Stewart’s IMO. Could definitely be missing something.

That said, I don’t expect hill to EVER develop into a full time QB like Slash did, nor do I expect gadget players to take the NFL by storm.

Im just not sure what we’re using to compare them.... cause looking at their stats in their first year(s) and I don’t see Stewart being “considerably” more productive at the same point in his career. Then again ALL I have to base it on is stats, and they don’t always tell the whole story. I was 4 when he was a rookie :D

Slash took over the world that year. Probably the biggest Nike campaign that year, and that was during Primetime's heyday. 

Comparing YPC isn't a fair comparison because Stewart was more WR than RB - he put up numbers comparable to a #3 WR back then (14/235/1 his rookie season, 17/293/3 the next season). He lined up all over the place, but he was pretty dangerous working out of the slot. 

My point was moreso how you didn't see these QB/WR/HB combos storm the league as Doomer suggested - Slash was a novel, productive player for Bill Cowher, but nobody really followed suit. 

I mean, teams tried - Eric Crouch, Antwaan Randell El, Brad Smith, Josh Cribbs - but guys just don't stick. Or, they stick FT at a position outside of QB (Julian Edelman, Hines Ward).

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3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Slash took over the world that year. Probably the biggest Nike campaign that year, and that was during Primetime's heyday. 

Comparing YPC isn't a fair comparison because Stewart was more WR than RB - he put up numbers comparable to a #3 WR back then (14/235/1 his rookie season, 17/293/3 the next season). He lined up all over the place, but he was pretty dangerous working out of the slot. 

My point was moreso how you didn't see these QB/WR/HB combos storm the league as Doomer suggested - Slash was a novel, productive player for Bill Cowher, but nobody really followed suit. 

I mean, teams tried - Eric Crouch, Antwaan Randell El, Brad Smith, Josh Cribbs - but guys just don't stick. Or, they stick FT at a position outside of QB (Julian Edelman, Hines Ward).

To be fair, those guys lack what Hill has the same way all mobile QB's other than Cam lacked, the frame to make the style of a pure gadget player sustainable. 

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48 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Comparing YPC isn't a fair comparison because Stewart was more WR than RB - he put up numbers comparable to a #3 WR back then (14/235/1 his rookie season, 17/293/3 the next season). He lined up all over the place, but he was pretty dangerous working out of the slot. 

This is fair, but then I’d say it’s hard to compare them at all if they’re playing different positions. 

It is also ignoring the fact that Hill is an absolute stud as a return coverage guy as well. It’s also ignoring the fact that we use him like an inline TE and H-back as well cause he’s a good blocker too. That’s hard to quantify when talking about productivity and comparing him to a guy like Stewart who from what I can tell didn’t do these things. 

If we’re looking at it strictly passing/catching/throwing then that all goes out the window, but if we’re looking at them as all around football players, Hill offers a LOT more than an option run from time to time 

 

Side note: I can’t find ANY Kordell Stewart KR/PR stats.... he punted a few times, but did he really return? Cause according to ESPN, NFL, and PFR he didn’t... if that’s the case, that’s another thing to consider with Hill. Not necessarily from a production standpoint but a versatility standpoint.

Edited by Dome

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19 hours ago, doomer said:

There are no other players like Taysom Hill. He's unique currently. Not sure why people are listing scat backs and wr/rb hybrids. Hill is 6'2 220 and a true swiss army knife.

I think we'll see it mimicked in the future. It saves teams roster spots.

 

this haa been done for years and years, its not really innovative. this isnt a shot or a bad thing but the saints are just mimicking whats already been done.

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Why are people making a big deal out of a guy who is average at a bunch of things? Is it because he is a below average passer on top of that? He's basically Tanner McEvoy with more passing ability.

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23 hours ago, Dome said:

I agree. I said something similar in the Saints for 2-4 weeks back. I’m excited to see what other wrinkles Payton has for him because teams WILL adjust to the way we’ve used him so far. 

Its hard to say if Hill hasn’t thrown much or hasn’t had any passes thrown his way because that’s not something he’s good at and they don’t want to risk a huge negative play or because they haven’t needed that wrinkle yet and want to keep it in their back pocket for now.

I’m waiting for the day that the Saints put Kamara at WR doing a jet sweep and Hill has the option of handing it to Kamara, keep it, or hand it to Ingram in the backfield. 

I think that Payton is waiting for teams to stop Hill before adding wrinkles. Hill is really good at being an option QB. Unbelievably athletic and hard nosed. He’s definitely quicker and faster than Cam. Cam is a bear to bring down. Lamar Jackson is faster and slightly more athletic but I doubt he’ll be the inside runner that Hill is. I’d aldo be concerned about his frame and taking punishment. Honestly, I liken Hill to a more athletic Tim Tebow. He hasn’t show ability to be a receiver up until this point, though he could probably be serviceable I’d assume, so he is no Kordell or Randel El. 

Edited by sammymvpknight

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1 minute ago, sammymvpknight said:

I think that Payton is waiting for teams to stop Hill before adding wrinkles.

Yeah. As long as he’s productive no reason to show your hand yet.

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19 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Why are people making a big deal out of a guy who is average at a bunch of things? Is it because he is a below average passer on top of that? He's basically Tanner McEvoy with more passing ability.

Not really, no.

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23 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Why are people making a big deal out of a guy who is average at a bunch of things? Is it because he is a below average passer on top of that? He's basically Tanner McEvoy with more passing ability.

Pretty bad comparison IMO

How do you see them as similar?

What they’re capable of from a physical standpoint? maybe.

What they’re actuslly doing and how they are (or were) used on offense isn’t the same at all

Edited by Dome
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19 hours ago, ET80 said:

Eh...back in 1995, people said the same thing about Kordell "Slash" Stewart, who was considerably more productive than Hill as a WR, RB, KR/PR (and eventually turned into a serviceable QB). 

It's novel, but it never caught on after that. You'll see 2-3 guys come around and get noticed, but it's a parlor trick at best.

I think it’s more of the case that it’s tough to find players that uniquely talented that are capable and willing to play so many roles while having a coaching ballsy and creative enough to use them. 

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1 minute ago, sammymvpknight said:

I think it’s more of the case that it’s tough to find players that uniquely talented that are capable and willing to play so many roles while having a coaching ballsy and creative enough to use them. 

I think it’s more about the creativity of the coach than anything else. Just find a good athlete that has a bit of that “it” factor and there you go.

As fun as TayTay is to watch and he is a physical specimen, I think the uniqueness of the situation is more about Payton and his offense than Hill.

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5 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Not really, no.

McEvoy played QB, WR, and S at Wisconsin. He has played TE and WR in the NFL. He has mainly stuck around for special teams value. You're getting excited for a bottom-of-the-roster type talent. I don't get it. Who cares if he's okay at a lot of things?

3 minutes ago, Dome said:

Pretty bad comparison IMO

How do you see them as similar?

What they’re capable of from a physical standpoint? maybe.

What they’re actuslly doing and how they are (or were) used on offense isn’t the same at all

See above. McEvoy is versatile as hell. We could also mention Joe Webb. It would be like me getting excited about Pharoh Cooper if the Rams used him as a wildcat QB every now and then. Who cares?

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1 minute ago, Dome said:

I think it’s more about the creativity of the coach than anything else. Just find a good athlete that has a bit of that “it” factor and there you go.

As fun as TayTay is to watch and he is a physical specimen, I think the uniqueness of the situation is more about Payton and his offense than Hill.

The way that he’s currently utilized, I agree. But when Taysom starts passing the ball more, I think that it will prove how unique he is. There are really only a handful of QBs that could do what Hill is currently doing for the Saints, and I’m skeptical that many if any would do as well. Cam, maybe. I don’t think that Jackson is as good in that role. 

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13 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

You're getting excited for a bottom-of-the-roster type talent. I don't get it. Who cares if he's okay at a lot of things?

I am? I freaking compared him to Tim Tebow. Lol

I see him as a gadget player that can make plays when you design them for him. I said it’s more about Payton’s offense than Hill being a unique player, I said I’m not even sure if we trust Hill to throw the ball at all.

What about that is unreasonable? 

And the McEvoy comparison is still bad. 

Edited by Dome
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