MookieMonstah Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: cool story bro... why is it arguments always break down to "your biased" with you? Why would a chiefs fan be biased against hill? What exactly is my bias? we need more here than your a falcons fan. You have a habit of extremely lazy arguments the second people dont agree with you. You don't have an argument. Find me a player who lines up at QB, runs the ball, passes the ball, catches the ball, blocks at TE, returns kicks, and plays STs. Find me ONE. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: so if joe flacco is thrown a singular pass is he then a wr? The logical answer is of course not, hes a qb that just happened to catch a pass one time. Why is it so hard for pepople to ne reasonable and logical? This is a really bad take, GSU. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 17 hours ago, Dome said: This is fair, but then I’d say it’s hard to compare them at all if they’re playing different positions. It is also ignoring the fact that Hill is an absolute stud as a return coverage guy as well. It’s also ignoring the fact that we use him like an inline TE and H-back as well cause he’s a good blocker too. That’s hard to quantify when talking about productivity and comparing him to a guy like Stewart who from what I can tell didn’t do these things. If we’re looking at it strictly passing/catching/throwing then that all goes out the window, but if we’re looking at them as all around football players, Hill offers a LOT more than an option run from time to time Side note: I can’t find ANY Kordell Stewart KR/PR stats.... he punted a few times, but did he really return? Cause according to ESPN, NFL, and PFR he didn’t... if that’s the case, that’s another thing to consider with Hill. Not necessarily from a production standpoint but a versatility standpoint. I think you're missing the overall point of my posts: 22 hours ago, doomer said: I think we'll see it mimicked in the future. It saves teams roster spots. We saw a similar - if not exact - concept in Kordell Stewart. This was back in 1995. We did not see anyone mimic this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, ET80 said: I think you're missing the overall point of my posts: Break it down for me then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, MookieMonstah said: You don't have an argument. Find me a player who lines up at QB, runs the ball, passes the ball, catches the ball, blocks at TE, returns kicks, and plays STs. Find me ONE. Sanu. Easy. but again, hill doesnt really do all those things, as already said. Nick Foles is not used as a WR, even though he just so happened to catch a pass. This isnt a controversial statement but when you say it for hill who essentially isnt used in the pass game at all its some huge blasphemy to a select few. You saying that list is like saying find me a guy who plays all 4 special teams, longs snaps, plays te, wr and safety. There may be a guy that fits that role, that doesnt make him the most unique player because he just so happened to play defense on a hail mary one time. Hill is talented and teh saints are finding ways to get him the ball, its almost all been running thus far. Again, so theres no confusion, hes a talented guy, but youre being fooliosh to think he wouldnt be yanked of special teams in a second if he somehow became a huge role player in teh offense. Hes good enough to be on the field on offense but not good offense to say youre to valuable to risk on sts. A lot of elite players can play sts but very rarly do they play them significantly... wonder why that may be. Also....what happened to the "youre just biased" argument, went ahead and dropped that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, Dome said: Break it down for me then 2 minutes ago, ET80 said: 22 hours ago, doomer said: I think we'll see it mimicked in the future. It saves teams roster spots. We saw a similar - if not exact - concept in Kordell Stewart. This was back in 1995. We did not see anyone mimic this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 21 hours ago, ET80 said: 22 hours ago, doomer said: I think we'll see it mimicked in the future. It saves teams roster spots. Eh...back in 1995, people said the same thing about Kordell "Slash" Stewart, who was considerably more productive than Hill as a WR, RB, KR/PR (and eventually turned into a serviceable QB). It's novel, but it never caught on after that. You'll see 2-3 guys come around and get noticed, but it's a parlor trick at best. @Dome - original post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ET80 said: I think you're missing the overall point of my posts: We saw a similar - if not exact - concept in Kordell Stewart. This was back in 1995. We did not see anyone mimic this. its not even the same concept, stewart was a full time qb at times. He also got legit targets in the pass game... the saint are just putting hill in different positions and handing him the ball mainly. who was the guy from the jets that played QB at iowa (brad something?), i think he returned kicks, played wr, ran the ball some and prob threw a couple passes.... not groundbreaking. Again, HILL IS TALENTED, just not super unique in the history of the nfl... Edited October 23, 2018 by GSUeagles14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ET80 said: Fair enough. I agreed from the beginning that I didn’t expect this to be any kind of fad. But I think Hill is a better ST player than Slash (did he really play STs? Lack of NFL.com and PFR stats implies he didnt) But you did compare him to Stewart. I was just pointing out that I didn’t like the comparison. Still don’t. Stewart was the better QB and receiving threat obviously, but I’m not sure he was as versatile or the same kind of chess piece really. Edited October 23, 2018 by Dome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: its not even the same concept, stewart was a full time qb at times. He also got legit targets in the pass game... the saint are just putting hill in different positions and handing him the ball mainly. who was the guy from the jets that played QB at iowa (brad something?), i think he returned kicks, played wr, ran the ball some and prob threw a couple passes.... not groundbreaking. Again, HILL IS TALENTED, just not super unique in the history of the nfl... Yeah Brad Smith. Forgot about that legend He’s a good comparison IMO, but did more as a receiver Edited October 23, 2018 by Dome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, Dome said: But you did compare him to Stewart. I was just pointing out that I didn’t like the comparison. Still don’t. I did so as a QB who did non-QB things, with no real deep dive into the specifics of their production, to counter an argument that this is some sort of trend setting development. That's the extent of the comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ET80 said: with no real deep dive into the specifics of their production I disagreed with you saying Stewart was “considerably” more productive as a gadget player. Especially just looking at Slash’s first season in the offense like Hill is in and considering Slash’s apparent lack of special teams play as well. I think they’re pretty comparable. Slash didn’t stick around as a gadget player because he basically became a full time QB. I don’t expect that from Hill. Edited October 23, 2018 by Dome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 20 hours ago, Dome said: “Considerably more productive” in what way? Hill has a better YPC right now, than Stewart ever finished with.... not that is the end all be all by any means... but Hills first year as a member of the offense is pretty damn comparable to Stewart’s IMO. Could definitely be missing something. That said, I don’t expect hill to EVER develop into a full time QB like Slash did, nor do I expect gadget players to take the NFL by storm. Im just not sure what we’re using to compare them.... cause looking at their stats in their first year(s) and I don’t see Stewart being “considerably” more productive at the same point in his career. Then again ALL I have to base it on is stats, and they don’t always tell the whole story. I was 4 when he was a rookie Why do you say that? Stewart was nothing special as a QB, in fact he was pretty bad. Hill should be able to be that at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dome said: I disagreed with you saying Stewart was “considerably” more productive. Especially just looking at Slash’s first season in the offense like Hill is in and considering Slash’s apparent lack of special teams play as well. I think they’re pretty comparable. ...and had I taken a deep dive, I would have came to a similar conclusion. But, I didn't. Not sure where the confusion is in that, but I've also spent way too much time discussing a backup QB/part time gadget player today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, frenchie said: Why do you say that? Stewart was nothing special as a QB, in fact he was pretty bad. Hill should be able to be that at the very least. That was 20 years ago. It takes a lot more to be a QB today. I don’t think Hill has it. Hes got the arm, but not the brain. He scrambles at the first sign of pressure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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