matt79511 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Matts4313 said: hmmm... Going from *WORST* to 4th best. Thats quite the different narrative than some have spun here. Was it one or two weeks ago that you said you thought Cooper was worth a 4th or 5th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I really think this team could afford going forward to give up only a third or maybe a second. From next years draft with that said to make this trade worth it Cooper has to now show 1st round talent going forward. I do think the separation numbers listed is huge. It is constantly mentioned how bad Dak is being quick to come off his 1st read get to his second and so forth well now I hope his first read is going to show more seperatuon then previously and we are going to have a WR be doubled on the outside for a change at times before we only saw schemes and doubles on Beasley in the slot which made it easier in defenses to both double Beasley while giving support or put players in position to be ready to double Beasley or blitz Either way this should also make space for both Elliot and designed runs by Dak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, matt79511 said: Was it one or two weeks ago that you said you thought Cooper was worth a 4th or 5th? And I was mad that we paid a first. Whats your point? I have only slightly warmed to the idea simply because I now have more information. People are allowed to change their thoughts. I still think a first is too much. The only way its not too much is if it drastically helps our passing attack. This needs to help us get to/near 2016 Dak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5x10 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Has a single receiver drastically stood out with dak at qb? I wouldn’t expect anything different with cooper, which really compounds the issue of giving a 1st for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 35 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: And I was mad that we paid a first. Whats your point? I have only slightly warmed to the idea simply because I now have more information. People are allowed to change their thoughts. I still think a first is too much. The only way its not too much is if it drastically helps our passing attack. This needs to help us get to/near 2016 Dak. My point is that fans are allowed to have preconceived notions that everything this team does is wrong, just as some choose to rationalize any decisions the team makes and decry the "doom and gloom" of this forum. There tends to be a clearly distinguishable dividing line between the two subsects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 21 hours ago, Calvert28 said: So instead of a 3-13 record and getting rid of this HC and OC we have a better shot of going 8-8 again and keeping them. Great. I was responding to the comment *it doesn't matter who you put around him, the results will be the same*. Which is asinine. My desire to ground the argument in logic and objectivity does not make me a Dak groupie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 15 hours ago, 5x10 said: My post had nothing to do with winning and had everything to do with a passer that is able to utilize his receivers What are we doing here? Dak's rookie season he made the Pro Bowl, 13-3 record, 24/3 TD/INT, 8 YPA. If you think he's not a good enough quarterback, I'd agree with you. But that's not the argument you made. You said it doesn't matter who you surround him with, the results will be the same. Well, when he had a good receiving core and the OL held up, he was significantly better. So give me a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, 5x10 said: Has a single receiver drastically stood out with dak at qb? I wouldn’t expect anything different with cooper, which really compounds the issue of giving a 1st for him No one single WR needs to stand out. It needs to be a cascading effect were one player helps lift the rest. Cooper drawing the #1 CB allowing Gallup/Hurns/Beasly to be covered by lesser CBs. BTW - isnt it still true that no top 5 WR has won a superbowl in like 15+ years? Cooper doesnt have to be a 1300 yard guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5x10 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 20 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: What are we doing here? Dak's rookie season he made the Pro Bowl, 13-3 record, 24/3 TD/INT, 8 YPA. If you think he's not a good enough quarterback, I'd agree with you. But that's not the argument you made. You said it doesn't matter who you surround him with, the results will be the same. Well, when he had a good receiving core and the OL held up, he was significantly better. So give me a break. You need to discount rookie yeta for every qb defenses adjust once they get tape or do you still think rg3 is a good qb? still standing with my point, the passing game will be the same with cooper sub par Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5x10 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: No one single WR needs to stand out. It needs to be a cascading effect were one player helps lift the rest. Cooper drawing the #1 CB allowing Gallup/Hurns/Beasly to be covered by lesser CBs. BTW - isnt it still true that no top 5 WR has won a superbowl in like 15+ years? Cooper doesnt have to be a 1300 yard guy. He’s gonna produce like Dez did and we gave a first for the same production that’s the problem spending draft picks on a subpar passing situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, 5x10 said: He’s gonna produce like Dez did and we gave a first for the same production that’s the problem spending draft picks on a subpar passing situation You are over simplifying it. First, Dez and Cooper dont have the same playstyle at all. Dak was never comfortable throwing to Dez. So if they are both ~850 yard 8TD guys, but Cooper can do it with less targets/INTs, that is a win. Cooper is also younger, faster and a better route runner. Dez was more physical and amazing at contested balls. Secondly, if you watched all or nothing, you can see that Dez was butting heads with a lot of the team. There is a reason we are halfway though the season and he is still not signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5x10 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 27 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: You are over simplifying it. First, Dez and Cooper dont have the same playstyle at all. Dak was never comfortable throwing to Dez. So if they are both ~850 yard 8TD guys, but Cooper can do it with less targets/INTs, that is a win. Cooper is also younger, faster and a better route runner. Dez was more physical and amazing at contested balls. Secondly, if you watched all or nothing, you can see that Dez was butting heads with a lot of the team. There is a reason we are halfway though the season and he is still not signed. We will see, I’m still banking on daks ceiling regardless of wr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, 5x10 said: You need to discount rookie yeta for every qb defenses adjust once they get tape or do you still think rg3 is a good qb? still standing with my point, the passing game will be the same with cooper sub par You are changing your argument, which is not surprising given that the original one was absurd hyperbole. I agree that I do not expect Amari Cooper will magically turn our passing game into a great one. There are many issues contributing to this, Dak's deficiencies certainly being a big part of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5x10 Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: You are changing your argument, which is not surprising given that the original one was absurd hyperbole. I agree that I do not expect Amari Cooper will magically turn our passing game into a great one. There are many issues contributing to this, Dak's deficiencies certainly being a big part of that. I’m not changing my argument, the post originally responded to had me saying the results would be the same Same thing I ended my last post with ive never mentioned winning, you did And you agree with me, the passing offense isn’t going to be great. I don’t see much of a change at all so what do you expect from cooper coming on? Statically, as a passing game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: What are we doing here? Dak's rookie season he made the Pro Bowl, 13-3 record, 24/3 TD/INT, 8 YPA. If you think he's not a good enough quarterback, I'd agree with you. But that's not the argument you made. You said it doesn't matter who you surround him with, the results will be the same. Well, when he had a good receiving core and the OL held up, he was significantly better. So give me a break. His receiving corp was basically the same in 2016 as it is now. Beasley was the leading WR. Dez was banged up and had a worse year in '16 than he did last year. TWill had 44 catches in '16. Witten is no longer here so you got me there, but the WR group was the same or worse than it is now, and our OL is currently ranked 11th in the league. I don't think adding talent to the outside is going to make Dak more accurate, or enable him to read the field better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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