OG_C2X Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, ZoomWaffle said: Gruden spent 8 years in TB where he at least had some influence on the draft. In 8 seasons, here are the only notable players he drafted: Jeremy Trueblood Jeremy Zuttah Davin Joseph Aqib Talib Four players in 8 drafts. Four. After watching the moves we've been making since Gruden came on board, it is clear to me that he will continue to have a huge say in everything, including the draft. Needless to say, I have little confidence that we will get much worth out of any of our picks, including those three 1st-rounders. He also didn't have a first or second rounder in his first 2 drafts. Then drafted Cadillac Williams who was the OROY then got hurt and ruined his career. Barett Rudd was a NFL starter for a good amount of seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomWaffle Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 31 minutes ago, OG_C2X said: He also didn't have a first or second rounder in his first 2 drafts. Then drafted Cadillac Williams who was the OROY then got hurt and ruined his career. Barett Rudd was a NFL starter for a good amount of seasons. Forgot about Ruud, he was good too. Williams? Sure he had injury issues but he had several full seasons where he was unimpressive. So add those two and it's a total of 6 memorable players in 8 drafts. It's not like I'd expect a Pro Bowler from each draft, but aside from 2005 (Cadillac, Ruud), 2006 (Joseph, Trueblood), and 2008 (Talib, Zuttah) his drafts were completely forgettable. Reminds me of some of our Al Davis (maybe Davis + Gruden?) drafts. Now, two solid-good starters in three different drafts is not bad at all, but completely missing in the other five drafts? Couple that kind of record with a need to bring in aged, past-their-prime players and it worries me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceman80 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, ZoomWaffle said: Forgot about Ruud, he was good too. Williams? Sure he had injury issues but he had several full seasons where he was unimpressive. So add those two and it's a total of 6 memorable players in 8 drafts. It's not like I'd expect a Pro Bowler from each draft, but aside from 2005 (Cadillac, Ruud), 2006 (Joseph, Trueblood), and 2008 (Talib, Zuttah) his drafts were completely forgettable. Reminds me of some of our Al Davis (maybe Davis + Gruden?) drafts. Now, two solid-good starters in three different drafts is not bad at all, but completely missing in the other five drafts? Couple that kind of record with a need to bring in aged, past-their-prime players and it worries me. I noted this in another thread earlier in the week. Look at our draft and its similar to Al. Kolton Miller, Brandon Parker, and PJ Hall - Raw, athletic kids who were considered a reach and based on potential. Trade for Bryant and Arden Key - Gifted players with major off field concerns. Mo Hurst and Nick Nelson - Solid talents with bigtime injury concerns P Johnny Townsend - Overdrafted K/P Almost seems like an Al draft imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 I think this is a good trade in the grand scheme of things. This season has gone south quickly and Cooper isn't going to be the player he was drafted to be. The fact that the Raiders got a first round pick for him is probably the best outcome the Raiders could have hoped for considering his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_C2X Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 48 minutes ago, ZoomWaffle said: Forgot about Ruud, he was good too. Williams? Sure he had injury issues but he had several full seasons where he was unimpressive. So add those two and it's a total of 6 memorable players in 8 drafts. It's not like I'd expect a Pro Bowler from each draft, but aside from 2005 (Cadillac, Ruud), 2006 (Joseph, Trueblood), and 2008 (Talib, Zuttah) his drafts were completely forgettable. Reminds me of some of our Al Davis (maybe Davis + Gruden?) drafts. Now, two solid-good starters in three different drafts is not bad at all, but completely missing in the other five drafts? Couple that kind of record with a need to bring in aged, past-their-prime players and it worries me. So he didnt have a 1st or a 2nd in 2003 and 2004. He had decent drafts in 05 and 06. Gaines wasn't a bad player. But died after 3 years. Had a decent draft in 08. I in no means thinks hes a draft wiz. I dont like his drafting much either. Never hit a home run in my opinion. But it is not as bad as people make it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 3 hours ago, ZoomWaffle said: Gruden spent 8 years in TB where he at least had some influence on the draft. In 8 seasons, here are the only notable players he drafted: Jeremy Trueblood Jeremy Zuttah Davin Joseph Aqib Talib Four players in 8 drafts. Four. After watching the moves we've been making since Gruden came on board, it is clear to me that he will continue to have a huge say in everything, including the draft. Needless to say, I have little confidence that we will get much worth out of any of our picks, including those three 1st-rounders. Hopefully he was just getting the bad picks out of the way back then and now he will hit on an above average amount of the picks moving forward. This is the rational I use when playing golf and is the only reason why I do not quit after 4-5 holes. Unfortunately for me those first 4-5 holes are just an example of how bad my golf game is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceman80 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 1 hour ago, OG_C2X said: So he didnt have a 1st or a 2nd in 2003 and 2004. He had decent drafts in 05 and 06. Gaines wasn't a bad player. But died after 3 years. Had a decent draft in 08. I in no means thinks hes a draft wiz. I dont like his drafting much either. Never hit a home run in my opinion. But it is not as bad as people make it Not to speak ill of the dead but Adams never remotely justified his 1st round selection. He was traded to the Bears before he tragically passed away and finished with just 13.5 sacks in 3 years. Funny thing is, he was traded to Chicago in 2009 for a 2010 2nd(#42), Tampa then traded us #42 and a 5th to move up to #39, then we traded #42 to the Pats for a 2nd, 4th, and 6th. The Patriots selected Gronk at #42. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 On 10/23/2018 at 10:30 AM, BayRaider said: Maybe Carrs placement is a little off and it was always him? Kind of odd he had Cooper, Roberts, and Crabtree all Top 10 in drops one year. We’ll find out if Cooper has sure hands in Dallas. To answer this, in 3 games he has not dropped any passes and has had about 5 really clutch grabs. He wont be a stat monster with us, but the dude is super talented. And this is coming from someone who hated the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: To answer this, in 3 games he has not dropped any passes and has had about 5 really clutch grabs. He wont be a stat monster with us, but the dude is super talented. And this is coming from someone who hated the trade. He's averaged 56 YPG in 3 games. That is nothing to get excited about. Those stats can be achieved by and UDRFA scrub who is on the field for every snap like Cooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: He's averaged 56 YPG in 3 games. That is nothing to get excited about. Those stats can be achieved by and UDRFA scrub who is on the field for every snap like Cooper. As a fan of my team, who has watched all the snaps as well as the all 22 on two of the games, I can tell you he has been really good. Our 3rd down percentage has gone from bottom 5 to top 10. Daks QB rating is up 10 points. Our young WRs basically revere him, discussing how he is teaching them to be better route runners. Our running game has opened up because he has been getting safety shade. Hell, he literally made a CB tear his ACL on a double move. Dude has been lights out. There is more to football than stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: As a fan of my team, who has watched all the snaps as well as the all 22 on two of the games, I can tell you he has been really good. Our 3rd down percentage has gone from bottom 5 to top 10. Daks QB rating is up 10 points. Our young WRs basically revere him, discussing how he is teaching them to be better route runners. Our running game has opened up because he has been getting safety shade. Hell, he literally made a CB tear his ACL on a double move. Dude has been lights out. There is more to football than stats. Hopefully will work out for both teams then. Made no sense to keep a guy who doesn’t produce much for us and we have to pay 17M per year to soon. I’m not a fan of paying WRs anyways unless you have an Antonio Brown or AJ Green type of talent. Just like Bellichick doesn’t pay LB’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Hopefully will work out for both teams then. Made no sense to keep a guy who doesn’t produce much for us and we have to pay 17M per year to soon. I’m not a fan of paying WRs anyways unless you have an Antonio Brown or AJ Green type of talent. Just like Bellichick doesn’t pay LB’s. I hated the trade. So trust me, it took some convincing. But he is going to be key in us winning us the division and has been great in the locker room. I think that is the definition of a win win. Hopefully you guys get a stud with our first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: I hated the trade. So trust me, it took some convincing. But he is going to be key in us winning us the division and has been great in the locker room. I think that is the definition of a win win. Hopefully you guys get a stud with our first. Well, you guys kind of win the division by default now with Smith gone. Eagles look turrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: As a fan of my team, who has watched all the snaps as well as the all 22 on two of the games, I can tell you he has been really good. Our 3rd down percentage has gone from bottom 5 to top 10. Daks QB rating is up 10 points. Our young WRs basically revere him, discussing how he is teaching them to be better route runners. Our running game has opened up because he has been getting safety shade. Hell, he literally made a CB tear his ACL on a double move. Dude has been lights out. There is more to football than stats. You've watched him for 3 games, I've watched for 3 years. Good luck convincing yourself that the trade was wise after you give up a first, he eats up over 15 million of your salary and preforms like a player who should be making 5. A lights out stud who is averaging 56 per game lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: You've watched him for 3 games, I've watched for 3 years. Good luck convincing yourself that the trade was wise after you give up a first, he eats up over 15 million of your salary and preforms like a player who should be making 5. A lights out stud who is averaging 56 per game lol... Are you struggling with what I am saying? His stats will never be outstanding in our offense. Its more his impact on other aspects of the game. And we were going to pay $14m for Watkins. $15 for Cooper is a steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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