Carson Wentz vs Patrick Mahomes

[MrOaktown_56]

28 minutes ago, Malik said:

Alex Smith had the same offense last year and the year before. The offense was not moving anywhere close to this. 

 

Both can be true. His cast is incredible all around and his head coach is very good at calling plays. The offense was 5th in the NFL in scoring last year, now 1st. Everyone is scoring more this year with the rule changes, statistically speaking. So the offense went from top 5 to the best in the NFL. Not a huge jump considering the rule changes. Mahomes is playing well, no one can discount that. But there's obviously more at play.

 

[Chiefer]

2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

This is an embarrassingly bad take. Having a quick snap to throw helps your OL, not the other way around. 

First read gone and he panics? Again, another embarrassingly bad and shallow take. 

Maybe it's hard to understand quarterback play when your coach is an offensive genius and your team has the best supporting cast in the NFL.

Yeah but once the first option is covered and you cant help the OL anymore bu getting rid of the ball quick, they gotta be great up front or Carr panics because hes scared of the rush. Saw it for years against the Chiefs, it was easy to defend and the rest of the league caught on. Once the leg broke and the coaching wasnt there to develop him more....things got worse.

Ive got friends that are Raider fans that hated Carr since day one for this reason.

Dude ive been through some terrible offenses. Tyler Palko with Todd Haley bad.

[MrOaktown_56]

14 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Yeah but once the first option is covered and you cant help the OL anymore bu getting rid of the ball quick, they gotta be great up front or Carr panics because hes scared of the rush. Saw it for years against the Chiefs, it was easy to defend and the rest of the league caught on. Once the leg broke and the coaching wasnt there to develop him more....things got worse.

Ive got friends that are Raider fans that hated Carr since day one for this reason.

Dude ive been through some terrible offenses. Tyler Palko with Todd Haley bad.

6

Cute those Raiders fans don’t know football.

Firstly you just admitted that he doesn't need "the best OL in football" because a fast release helps the OL and allows him to be hit less. Good, glad we could get on the same page with that.

When you put statements out there like “once you cover up his first read he’s easy to beat” is telling. It tells me you really haven’t watched him outside the Chief games where he’s historically been at his worst and struggled for a number of reasons, or you don’t know what you’re watching. Take your pick.

Yesterday, Carr completed passes to 7 different receivers. Because taking away his first read flusters him and caused him to get “figured out” right? Not the OC we fired last year who destroyed our offense? Or the several injuries he's sustained since then? Or the running game which consistently ranks at the bottom of the league. 

He’s not scared of the rush. He’s stood in this season and taken hits consistently, including yesterday. But let me guess, you watch the Raiders way more than I do.

I’m happy to have an intelligent conversation, but gross oversimplifications that lack substance aren’t really doing it for me.

[Malik]

59 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

 

Both can be true. His cast is incredible all around and his head coach is very good at calling plays. The offense was 5th in the NFL in scoring last year, now 1st. Everyone is scoring more this year with the rule changes, statistically speaking. So the offense went from top 5 to the best in the NFL. Not a huge jump considering the rule changes. Mahomes is playing well, no one can discount that. But there's obviously more at play.

 

Absolutely. It just reminded me of the Kurt Warner conversations. Yeah he had a loaded offense, but he was still MVP great with them and other QBs in those same offenses weren't nearly as good.

[Chiefer]

16 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

 

Both can be true. His cast is incredible all around and his head coach is very good at calling plays. The offense was 5th in the NFL in scoring last year, now 1st. Everyone is scoring more this year with the rule changes, statistically speaking. So the offense went from top 5 to the best in the NFL. Not a huge jump considering the rule changes. Mahomes is playing well, no one can discount that. But there's obviously more at play.

 

Mahomes just has more raw talent than Alex, and isn't scared to pull the trigger. Much better vision to find the open man, and much better under duress.

also, Watkins>>Wilson so that helps immensely to open things up especially with Watkins finally getting targeted. But I saw Mahomes make plays with bottom barrel guys on the roster. Can't defend accurate throws that both keep his receiver safe and in a place only his receiver can catch them.

15 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Cute those Raiders fans don’t know football.

Firstly you just admitted that he doesn't need "the best OL in football" because a fast release helps the OL and allows him to be hit less. Good, glad we could get on the same page with that.

When you put statements out there like “once you cover up his first read he’s easy to beat” is telling. It tells me you really haven’t watched him outside the Chief games where he’s historically been at his worst and struggled for a number of reasons, or you don’t know what you’re watching. Take your pick.

Yesterday, Carr completed passes to 7 different receivers. Because taking away his first read flusters him and caused him to get “figured out” right? Not the OC we fired last year who destroyed our offense? Or the several injuries he's sustained since then? Or the running game which consistently ranks at the bottom of the league. 

He’s not scared of the rush. He’s stood in this season and taken hits consistently, including yesterday. But let me guess, you watch the Raiders way more than I do.

I’m happy to have an intelligent conversation, but gross oversimplifications that lack substance aren’t really doing it for me.

All the other games I watched this year he's been dumping it off as much as possible trying to escape the rush.(unless that's scheme which with Chucky west coast who knows) He looks, maybe not scared, but overwhelmed just like I saw in college. Y'all shouldve kept Murray.

but like you've said coaching is a lot of the equation. I feel bad for Carr he just keeps regressing and the coaching and FO hasn't been helping him.

I've only seen a few Raiders games this year so I might be wrong. As long as you guys keep sucking i don't really care tbh(;

[eagles18]

The man has 26 TDs through 8 games.. He's the MVP and there should be no debate. However, it is to be determined who will have the better career moving forward after this season. 

[MrOaktown_56]

On 10/30/2018 at 10:32 AM, Chiefer said:

Mahomes just has more raw talent than Alex, and isn't scared to pull the trigger. Much better vision to find the open man, and much better under duress.

also, Watkins>>Wilson so that helps immensely to open things up especially with Watkins finally getting targeted. But I saw Mahomes make plays with bottom barrel guys on the roster. Can't defend accurate throws that both keep his receiver safe and in a place only his receiver can catch them.

All the other games I watched this year he's been dumping it off as much as possible trying to escape the rush.(unless that's scheme which with Chucky west coast who knows) He looks, maybe not scared, but overwhelmed just like I saw in college. Y'all shouldve kept Murray.

but like you've said coaching is a lot of the equation. I feel bad for Carr he just keeps regressing and the coaching and FO hasn't been helping him.

I've only seen a few Raiders games this year so I might be wrong. As long as you guys keep sucking i don't really care tbh(;

6

He looked flustered in the Rams game in primetime. I don't blame him with suh and donald bearing down on him. Since then, I haven't seen any such thing.

This forum can't evaluate qb play in general though. I won't single you out because I don't expect you to rewatch every Raiders game at least twice. Agree to disagree.

This is what he did last sunday:

 

[Danger]

Man Eagles fans always getting berated for bringing their players into threads that aren't directly about them, where's the consistency? Well I guess the Raiders would have to be relevant for anyone to care.

[aussie_eagle]

Tough to say who the better player over their career will be currently. There's a reason the 2nd season for QB's is usually the hardest. The teams have the film on them then

[Buckweath]

4 hours ago, aussie_eagle said:

Tough to say who the better player over their career will be currently. There's a reason the 2nd season for QB's is usually the hardest. The teams have the film on them then

Lol. Is it? Because it doesn't seem like any of Goff, Wentz, Watson or Trubisky are/were having any more trouble than in their first year.

 

 

[Danger]

4 hours ago, aussie_eagle said:

Tough to say who the better player over their career will be currently. There's a reason the 2nd season for QB's is usually the hardest. The teams have the film on them then

That's not true at all. They have film on them in college. And usually a players biggest leaps will be made between their rookie and Sophomore seasons. 

That said. All rookie stats and numbers should be pretty much ignored these days. Ever since RG3, it's been apparent that rookie performances don't mean much in regards to long term viability. 

[Chiefer]

12 minutes ago, Danger said:

That's not true at all. They have film on them in college. And usually a players biggest leaps will be made between their rookie and Sophomore seasons. 

That said. All rookie stats and numbers should be pretty much ignored these days. Ever since RG3, it's been apparent that rookie performances don't mean much in regards to long term viability. 

Rg3 was a running QB though. I didn't see him sustaining that at the NFL level.

[eagles18]

1 hour ago, Chiefer said:

Rg3 was a running QB though. I didn't see him sustaining that at the NFL level.

I think Griffin could still be a capable starter. surely over Nathan Peterman and Blake Bortles

[Chiefer]

35 minutes ago, eagles18 said:

I think Griffin could still be a capable starter. surely over Nathan Peterman and Blake Bortles

Yeah Shanahan and the Redskins organization ruined him. I think if he gets drafted by Reid things turn out differently.

[MrOaktown_56]

On 11/8/2018 at 11:11 AM, Chiefer said:

Yeah Shanahan and the Redskins organization ruined him. I think if he gets drafted by Reid things turn out differently.

If anyone gets drafted by Reid. The Chiefs were going to take Carr before they got Alex Smith. That probably would have worked out marvelously if we're being honest.