Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[Thomas5737]

27 minutes ago, ditchdigger said:

Models said 7 to 8 million Americans would die if we did nothing.

What's the price tag on that?

Yeah, if no one did nothing that may be about right. We would always do something though because once we knew something was happening we'd at the very least try to protect ourselves and family and spread the news to those around us.

I think worst case scenario would be 100,000-300,000 without enforced measure being taken.

I suspect with the measures already being implemented we'd max out at 50k.

I suspect the total number will be well less than that with potential drugs being effective at fight it and closures taking place across the country.

[Thomas5737]

4 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

Did I hear correctly that we could be looking at this lasting 18 months?.. Yikes

Well that is what they expect the timeline will be before a vaccine is available. I think treatment will be much quicker. They certainly aren't shutting things down for 18 months. Probably a 2 to 4 week window to stop the potential widespread of the virus and then handle isolated spreading as needed.

[candyman93]

Some of the stuff going on in Florida is unbelievable to me. They are behind every state in the US by far.

 

Part of their reluctance to shut down is due to how unpredictable hurricane season can be.

Edited March 20, 2020 by candyman93

[ditchdigger]

3 hours ago, bruceb said:

1. What models? The available data are scant, disjointed, in some cases unrealiable (e.g., From China) and otherwise unprojectible. Sounds like a WAG at best and an exaggerated one at that; and

2. Vitually nothing we are doing will stop the ultimate spread/dispersion of this virus, unless seasonality (e.g., warmer weather) or some other favorable intervening, mitigating factor(s) enter the picture.

This cat is out of the bag/horse is out of the barn/genie is out of the bottle -- pick your metaphor. Ain't no way to contain/control it.

1. Do your own research. You seem like the kind of horse that only drinks water you find on your own. There are numerous scientific organizations working on modeling. Find one. They are out there.

2. Nothing we are doing is intended to stop it. It is only intended to slow the rate of spreading to avoid overwhelming the hospitals in this country. Hospital beds, ICU rooms, respirators, etc. are far fewer than the number of people who will become sick without mitigation. Flattening the curve just means expanding the timeline, not eliminating transmission. 

3. There is no way to control a pandemic, that is true. Does that mean you do nothing? Just accept that millions of Americans will die and go on about your business? That's about as sociopathic as it gets. 

[ditchdigger]

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah, if no one did nothing that may be about right. We would always do something though because once we knew something was happening we'd at the very least try to protect ourselves and family and spread the news to those around us.

I think worst case scenario would be 100,000-300,000 without enforced measure being taken.

I suspect with the measures already being implemented we'd max out at 50k.

I suspect the total number will be well less than that with potential drugs being effective at fight it and closures taking place across the country.

The numbers in the model I saw were not just COVID-related. They also included other illnesses that would not have access to care because of the overwhelming number people in the system. It's not like those beds, respirators and such are all empty awaiting COVID patients.

I am hopeful we can mitigate the number of deaths. I am not confident we are doing enough though.

[AkronsWitness]

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah, if no one did nothing that may be about right. We would always do something though because once we knew something was happening we'd at the very least try to protect ourselves and family and spread the news to those around us.

I think worst case scenario would be 100,000-300,000 without enforced measure being taken.

I suspect with the measures already being implemented we'd max out at 50k.

I suspect the total number will be well less than that with potential drugs being effective at fight it and closures taking place across the country.

Be thankful we have Dewine, though I am not aligned with him---he has killed this whole virus thing in OH. This is the type of action that gets you praise regardless of party. He signed up for this job and is doing it well when it matters most.

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by AkronsWitness

[Thomas5737]

6 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Be thankful we have Dewine, though I am not aligned with him---he has killed this whole virus thing in OH. This is the type of action that gets you praise regardless of party. He signed up for this job and is doing it well when it matters most.

I get annoyed when the media tries to make this political. It isn't like one party is going to intentionally screw something like this up. As an independent it is probably easier for me to ignore the political aspect of this. I'll watch CNN and they'll start talking about how this could have been handled better earlier and blame Trump and then turn on Fox and they talk about how poorly Obama handled H1N1 and I just change the channels on them.

I think the country would be in a better place if the majority of the country didn't have a political party and they could always just think for themselves without feeling they have to support a notion because they are invested because they are part of that party.

If I discuss the Browns vs. anything I am going to favor the Browns and it may make my judgement off. If I discuss the Vikings I can be entirely honest because I have no rooting interest for or against them. This is a worldwide issue and we are all human. The world should come together as we fight this and your country, race, religion etc... shouldn't matter.

I think mostly everyone is trying to do the right thing. Sure there will be egos and monetary decisions that are going to cause some people to make bad choices but we will remember that and hopefully make decisions in the future that will make them regret it.

[AkronsWitness]

14 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I get annoyed when the media tries to make this political. It isn't like one party is going to intentionally screw something like this up. As an independent it is probably easier for me to ignore the political aspect of this. I'll watch CNN and they'll start talking about how this could have been handled better earlier and blame Trump and then turn on Fox and they talk about how poorly Obama handled H1N1 and I just change the channels on them.

I think the country would be in a better place if the majority of the country didn't have a political party and they could always just think for themselves without feeling they have to support a notion because they are invested because they are part of that party.

If I discuss the Browns vs. anything I am going to favor the Browns and it may make my judgement off. If I discuss the Vikings I can be entirely honest because I have no rooting interest for or against them. This is a worldwide issue and we are all human. The world should come together as we fight this and your country, race, religion etc... shouldn't matter.

I think mostly everyone is trying to do the right thing. Sure there will be egos and monetary decisions that are going to cause some people to make bad choices but we will remember that and hopefully make decisions in the future that will make them regret it.

My only complaint is with people that side with whoever is on 'their side' of the political party, just because he/she is Republican/Democrat. Its the most obnoxious thing ever to me. Its okay to have your own opinion on things. Its okay to say you think this guys views are correct but you dont agree with something else he does.

People who Stan for the political party regardless of who is the representative is moronic. Its okay to call your baby ugly and its okay to change your opinion and think for yourself.

George Washington once said that one of the only things that could tear America apart is a bi-partisan government. Guess what, we have one and its at the worst levels it has ever been since I have been alive. Just trash. I wish people would support candidates specific views that align with what they actually believe instead of strictly supporting their aligned party regardless of who the candidate is.

Here is some light reading for any die hard party memebers:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/washingtons-farewell-address-warned-us-about-hyper-partisanship-214616

Edited March 20, 2020 by AkronsWitness

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

When 40% of the county watches this nonsense, and most importantly thinks it’s the gospel that’s never wrong, there’s a problem.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/how-fox-news-has-shifted-its-coronavirus-rhetoric/2020/03/17/e0f4e15d-9ae3-4779-8a6a-c4eb505e18c0_video.html

Click the link and watch the 2 min video and check the dates. 
 

This isn’t a political statement, it’s a statement as to the general intentional dishonesty of the reporting of that network. This “fake news media” propaganda paired with Fox’s coverage of the pandemic until this week has been the biggest obstacle the society has had to overcome.  People thought it was a cold and fake news.  Some still do. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

It’s especially problematic when the president of the country is encouraging people to do LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE of what they should have been doing as recent as last week.

Many people aren’t terribly informed and look to people like the president, whatever party they’re affiliated with, for guidance.  We’ve been brought up to believe they are working in our best interest. In times like this you can’t have mixed messages and that’s exactly what they were doing.

The early response of this administration (only talking about the virus) was disastrous by any objective measure. Even since the emergency was declared last week, much of the really good work has been done at the state and local levels and by members of both parties, including our Republican governor who has essentially set the standard for most of the last week.

[Thomas5737]

58 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s especially problematic when the president of the country is encouraging people to do LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE of what they should have been doing as recent as last week.

Many people aren’t terribly informed and look to people like the president, whatever party they’re affiliated with, for guidance.  We’ve been brought up to believe they are working in our best interest. In times like this you can’t have mixed messages and that’s exactly what they were doing.

The early response of this administration (only talking about the virus) was disastrous by any objective measure. Even since the emergency was declared last week, much of the really good work has been done at the state and local levels and by members of both parties, including our Republican governor who has essentially set the standard for most of the last week.

Obviously all President's (and state/local government) have advisors, they don't make the decisions themselves, no one can be an expert in every field.

This has never happened in our lifetime so there will be mistakes made. I accept that and won't tar and feather anyone for late response or misinformation on what they were being advised.

Now the President should be professional and they have all tried except one in my lifetime so I do have issue with that.

There are still many people out there that believe this is stupid and it isn't more than an average cold. It isn't party specific. There are also many people out there that believe their uneducated opinion is fact.

 

I just don't like watching either side try to discredit the other political party right now because I don't give a crap about that, this is the wrong time to try to win elections or continue to brainwash people with agendas and inaccuracies. I don't care which party had the current Presidency there would be mistakes made because we have no guidelines on something we've never seen before.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

53 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Obviously all President's (and state/local government) have advisors, they don't make the decisions themselves, no one can be an expert in every field.
 

Of course they can’t, but this is where the quality of the advisors and the politician‘s (either party, any level of government) willingness to defer to the experts is important.

For example (purely hypothetical) if a politician publicly discredited the WHO data and projections on a hunch, that would be irresponsible.  

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This has never happened in our lifetime so there will be mistakes made. I accept that and won't tar and feather anyone for late response or misinformation on what they were being advised.

There’s a lot of assumptions in there.

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Now the President should be professional and they have all tried except one in my lifetime so I do have issue with that.

Not sure who or what you mean, but I’ll just say I agree professionalism should be expected for anyone serving the public.

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There are still many people out there that believe this is stupid and it isn't more than an average cold. It isn't party specific. There are also many people out there that believe their uneducated opinion is fact.

This is true unfortunately.

That said, not all opinions are equal.  As it relates to COVID19, the opinions of an epidemiologist should carry more weight than a career politician or real estate mogul.

The basis of knowledge and understanding of the issues are much better understood by an expert than a layperson, even if there are still multiple unknowns.

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I just don't like watching either side try to discredit the other political party right now because I don't give a crap about that, this is the wrong time to try to win elections or continue to brainwash people with agendas and inaccuracies.
 

I don’t think this is even partisan per se.. I’m pretty sure my political thoughts are pretty transparent, but I’ve been singing DeWine’s praises all week.

Even amongst politicians.  Ted Cuz retweeting and agreeing with AOC, bills getting passed, etc..

That said, it’s never a bad time to discredit poor information.

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I don't care which party had the current Presidency there would be mistakes made because we have no guidelines on something we've never seen before.

Oh for sure, I won’t argue that, but not all mistakes carry the same weight and politicians of any party are held responsible for their mistakes.  It comes with the job.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Quote

This has never happened in our lifetime so there will be mistakes made. I accept that and won't tar and feather anyone for late response or misinformation on what they were being advised.

There’s a lot of assumptions in there.

Where?

 

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Oh for sure, I won’t argue that, but not all mistakes carry the same weight and politicians of any party are held responsible for their mistakes.  It comes with the job.

Well the media (including social which we are all a part of) really need to stop feasting on the political side of this. Lets not hope for failure just because we don't like the party in charge and many are coming off that way. I get that we need things to talk about and some people have strong desires to talk politics all of the time but man does it get old. I don't normally watch the cable news channels for that reason unless there is a weather event or something else going on in the world. Still, every hurricane, pandemic or etc... ends up as a Presidential ad for a specific party depending on what station you watch and I have no interest in opinions of people that are always 100% for or against a party and that is what most of it is.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

2 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Where?

Assuming they were getting poor information or the sources they were getting the info was from appropriate sources.  
 

This is most definitely a once in a lifetime event, but we also had a two month head start to get our heads around this and start preparing (governmentally, not on an individual level).  There should have been a lot of mistakes made already that we could have learned from.  
 

We could have used that time to produce and distribute testing kits, start advising medical facilities to prepare and support them with equipment, etc.. I get that you can’t overreact to every potential pandemic, but protective steps have to be taken, and quite frankly weren’t until a week ago.

2 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

 

Well the media (including social which we are all a part of) really need to stop feasting on the political side of this. Lets not hope for failure just because we don't like the party in charge and many are coming off that way. I get that we need things to talk about and some people have strong desires to talk politics all of the time but man does it get old. I don't normally watch the cable news channels for that reason unless there is a weather event or something else going on in the world. Still, every hurricane, pandemic or etc... ends up as a Presidential ad for a specific party depending on what station you watch and I have no interest in opinions of people that are always 100% for or against a party and that is what most of it is.

I get that, and it’s frustrating.

Now isn’t the time for worrying about elections, it’s time for supporting the American people and keeping this whole rickety society afloat.

That said, it is absolutely appropriate to discuss mistakes and corrections to the system that need to be made to prevent the same mistakes and issues from repeating themselves. Hopefully now more of those decisions will be based on things like the greater good as opposed to how it betters their re-election chances (for both parties, all levels of government).

[Thomas5737]

14 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Assuming they were getting poor information or the sources they were getting the info was from appropriate sources.  
 

This is most definitely a once in a lifetime event, but we also had a two month head start to get our heads around this and start preparing (governmentally, not on an individual level).  There should have been a lot of mistakes made already that we could have learned from.  
 

We could have used that time to produce and distribute testing kits, start advising medical facilities to prepare and support them with equipment, etc.. I get that you can’t overreact to every potential pandemic, but protective steps have to be taken, and quite frankly weren’t until a week ago.

Well the virus was foreign to us at the first stages and we would have had to rely on China and their research to create testing kits for this specific strain.

The medical equipment available is the medical equipment available I don't know if they even could demand companies to oversupply their products at the risk of loss. I guess the Government could have made the purchase but I imagine the production time for a lot of the equipment is time consuming and I imagine a lot of it is produced in the country that was hit first and that they would probably have other priorities than us preparing for what they were currently dealing with. Just a guess though because everything seems to be made in China.

Yes, we could have been more prepared and we probably will be next time (no matter which party is in office) and if we aren't then shame on us because now we have seen this and know what the demands may be.