Is that the light at the end of the tunnel? (O.T. Thread)

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Not disagreeing with any of that, it's valid. You know what else is valid? Having a metal detector in literally every single school with, you know, doors that actually lock appropriately too.

Spending money on schools so stuff works?  I’m in.

5 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

That would be a nice "better not perfect" measure than we have now, which is jumping to other gun related issues, which, to your point, you can see a very strong case for needing to happen at least in some capacity (well regulated).

It doesn't have to be AR lapel pins or "ban assault style weapon" Stone Cold vs. The Rock Congressional promos either.

Yeah there’s so much we can do before even discussing bans.

[MWil23]

23 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Spending money on schools so stuff works?  I’m in.

We can get technology grants in the snap of a finger, whether it's Chromebooks, SMART Boards, or whatever else...but we can't put metal detectors and working locks in every school? New school builds have a master button that locks every single door into the school which then triggers a silent alarm, so we know/have this technology at the ready now.

23 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah there’s so much we can do before even discussing bans.

And not even ones that are partisan sticking points. Who says no to those things? A local school today is closed because some kid made a threat on Instagram (Fairmont HS). The solution is basically "let's close" because there's not even a viable safety plan...and I'm not even saying it's their fault.

[Dawgpoun8017]

As far as school shootings I feel that every school in every district should have at minimum one armed resource officer (I mean a real officer that needs to adhere to a set of physical requirements as well as stringent firearms qualifications, not just an older officer looking to ride out till retirement) assigned to each campus, one point of entry that can only be opened by someone in the main office ( you have multiple emergency exits that are to remained locked unless opened from inside and are not to be used under any circumstances other than emergency) you replace door with hearty reinforced doors. And I am a conservative voice preaching for a much larger investment into mental health services, in New York almost all of the Mental health facilities have been closed which in turn causes more mental health cases to come to jail, where we generally do not have the capacity to provide the care needed

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

As far as school shootings I feel that every school in every district should have at minimum one armed resource officer (I mean a real officer that needs to adhere to a set of physical requirements as well as stringent firearms qualifications, not just an older officer looking to ride out till retirement) assigned to each campus, one point of entry that can only be opened by someone in the main office ( you have multiple emergency exits that are to remained locked unless opened from inside and are not to be used under any circumstances other than emergency) you replace door with hearty reinforced doors. And I am a conservative voice preaching for a much larger investment into mental health services, in New York almost all of the Mental health facilities have been closed which in turn causes more mental health cases to come to jail, where we generally do not have the capacity to provide the care needed

A lot of this is part of the defund the police stuff.  It’s a bad bumper sticker I admit, but this is the meat of it.

Stop having unqualified police officers deal with people in mental health crisis and then detain them in inappropriate facilities manned by more people who aren’t trained to care for these folks. 
 

Let mental health professionals deal with mental health issues in mental health facilities with money previously earmarked for police.  It’s “defunding police”, sure, but you’re also at that point asking them to deal with less and streamlining their job.

We ask our police to be good at too much stuff, they’re not trained to be experts in all of this ****. I’m not sure when cops became the catch all answer to everything, but it’s kinda nuts.  

[Dawgpoun8017]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

A lot of this is part of the defund the police stuff.  It’s a bad bumper sticker I admit, but this is the meat of it.

Stop having unqualified police officers deal with people in mental health crisis and then detain them in inappropriate facilities manned by more people who aren’t trained to care for these folks. 
 

Let mental health professionals deal with mental health issues in mental health facilities with money previously earmarked for police.  It’s “defunding police”, sure, but you’re also at that point asking them to deal with less and streamlining their job.

We ask our police to be good at too much stuff, they’re not trained to be experts in all of this ****. I’m not sure when cops became the catch all answer to everything, but it’s kinda nuts.  

It’s not so much that you need to defund police as it is you need to fund mental health services, Police are still an existential part of society as someone who is having a mental health episode can be extremely dangerous and violent, to me you need both funded and working hand in hand

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

26 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

We can get technology grants in the snap of a finger, whether it's Chromebooks, SMART Boards, or whatever else...but we can't put metal detectors and working locks in every school? New school builds have a master button that locks every single door into the school which then triggers a silent alarm, so we know/have this technology at the ready now.

It’s a sad reality that this is where we’re at with needing master locks and silent alarms, but it’s a reality nevertheless.

26 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

And not even ones that are partisan sticking points. Who says no to those things? A local school today is closed because some kid made a threat on Instagram (Fairmont HS). The solution is basically "let's close" because there's not even a viable safety plan...and I'm not even saying it's their fault.

Yeah, there’s not other option tbh. 

[AkronsWitness]

7 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And you think giving up public property for free to, at the time, the most valuable corporation in the world is a good thing?

Did you read the article?:

 “The $3.5 billion in financial incentives, which includes grants and tax breaks, were based on Amazon delivering 40,600 jobs with a 4.06 billion payroll.”

They’ve already paused construction on their Arlington development after layoffs.

They’ve hired 8k so far.  So that’s 437k in tax breaks per job thus far.  

 

Im not saying there wouldn’t be upside to having Amazon build a corporate headquarters somewhere, sure there would, but is asking them to pay their fair share of taxes that much?  You have to. I have to.  Every small business in the area has to.  Why not them?  Why shouldn’t they pay their share for the infrastructure they’re going to use?

Its not a good thing, but Im just saying that Cleveland was bending over and spreading them for Amazon and they still chose a different city. Cant hate them for trying. Im just mad that it would have gotten downtown another skyscraper lol 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

34 minutes ago, Dawgpoun8017 said:

It’s not so much that you need to defund police as it is you need to fund mental health services, Police are still an existential part of society as someone who is having a mental health episode can be extremely dangerous and violent, to me you need both funded and working hand in hand

Most people aren’t talking about getting rid of cops entirely or anything like that, but if part of their job is handled by someone else (the mental health professionals) we should in theory need less and they should require a smaller budget.

It’s diverting *some* funds from the police budget for mental health specialists (amongst other things)
 

We as a nation have absurd police budgets, largely because other things like mental healthcare are underfunded.  Start funding those things and adjust the police budget accordingly. I’d also argue that we as a society aren’t seeing a terribly efficient use of those funds as the people in charge of handling things aren’t really trained to do so.  That’s not a slight against cops so much as an indictment of the system we have in place.  We ask them to do more than they should reasonably be expected to do.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

16 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Its not a good thing, but Im just saying that Cleveland was bending over and spreading them for Amazon and they still chose a different city. Cant hate them for trying. Im just mad that it would have gotten downtown another skyscraper lol 

I hate every one of those cities for trying lol.  Make the billionaire and his trillion dollar company pay for their own damned buildings, land, etc. ffs.

[JDD]

I have 1 big issue with loan forgiveness for college. If they do go through with it they should only allow the cost of school to be forgiven. So if you went to school for 4 years for undergrad and took the max out and owe $120k, yet it only costs $60k for the school you would be responsible for the difference. Because all I hear people say is that they need to be bailed out, but they took extra money out. What did you do with the 60k?
 

I think all loans should be set up for interest at 1.5% and if they go into default you get an extension but at 2%. Also the loan should be 15 years and be able to be paid tax free. So you get a reinvestment or reimbursement at the end of the year for the tax credit. So any amount you pay is a tax shelter. So for example if you are married you can actually pay 100% of your salary to the loan and be given a huge tax rebate. Or if you have the money but wait to pay it off you get a tax break for a few years. It would be a good idea to Also let companies provide a match or something like 401k. 
 

But nah, the one side will say remove it all and the other will say no and both will go drive away in their $100k cars and eat at a fancy dinner on a donor’s dime. Then virtue signal about how they tried so hard for everyone. 
 

 

[MWil23]

10 hours ago, JDD said:

I have 1 big issue with loan forgiveness for college. If they do go through with it they should only allow the cost of school to be forgiven. So if you went to school for 4 years for undergrad and took the max out and owe $120k, yet it only costs $60k for the school you would be responsible for the difference. Because all I hear people say is that they need to be bailed out, but they took extra money out. What did you do with the 60k?
 

I think all loans should be set up for interest at 1.5% and if they go into default you get an extension but at 2%. Also the loan should be 15 years and be able to be paid tax free. So you get a reinvestment or reimbursement at the end of the year for the tax credit. So any amount you pay is a tax shelter. So for example if you are married you can actually pay 100% of your salary to the loan and be given a huge tax rebate. Or if you have the money but wait to pay it off you get a tax break for a few years. It would be a good idea to Also let companies provide a match or something like 401k. 
 

But nah, the one side will say remove it all and the other will say no and both will go drive away in their $100k cars and eat at a fancy dinner on a donor’s dime. Then virtue signal about how they tried so hard for everyone. 
 

 

I don’t disagree with any of this. 1.5-2% is very reasonable. An employer match type is a good idea, as would be viewing it as some sort of tax credit. Putting a cap at 15 years with that type of interest rate is a fine, and I wish more universities would give tuition breaks for part time workers. So, kid who works 20 hours per week on campus, you get a 50% tuition remission per course you take, but you’re on your own for room and board, or you can choose to live off campus.

Make more fringe benefits a priority.

[big poppa pump]

16 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Most people aren’t talking about getting rid of cops entirely or anything like that, but if part of their job is handled by someone else (the mental health professionals) we should in theory need less and they should require a smaller budget.

It’s diverting *some* funds from the police budget for mental health specialists (amongst other things)
 

We as a nation have absurd police budgets, largely because other things like mental healthcare are underfunded.  Start funding those things and adjust the police budget accordingly. I’d also argue that we as a society aren’t seeing a terribly efficient use of those funds as the people in charge of handling things aren’t really trained to do so.  That’s not a slight against cops so much as an indictment of the system we have in place.  We ask them to do more than they should reasonably be expected to do.

The police budget will take care of itself.  They are down several hundred officers currently, and have 9 people in their academy.  No one wants that job, and I don't blame anyone.  They talk about needing to do a better job recruiting, but that's not going to work, not in today's society.  Who wants that smoke?  You put your life on the line (literally) every day.  No one respects you.  You are lied to on the regular.  You are scrutinized for every decision you make.  There really isn't enough money, or a big enough budget for that job. 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2023/05/amid-a-shortage-of-officers-cleveland-police-academy-has-its-smallest-class-of-recruits-in-25-years.html

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 hours ago, JDD said:

I have 1 big issue with loan forgiveness for college. If they do go through with it they should only allow the cost of school to be forgiven. So if you went to school for 4 years for undergrad and took the max out and owe $120k, yet it only costs $60k for the school you would be responsible for the difference. Because all I hear people say is that they need to be bailed out, but they took extra money out. What did you do with the 60k?
 

I think all loans should be set up for interest at 1.5% and if they go into default you get an extension but at 2%. Also the loan should be 15 years and be able to be paid tax free. So you get a reinvestment or reimbursement at the end of the year for the tax credit. So any amount you pay is a tax shelter. So for example if you are married you can actually pay 100% of your salary to the loan and be given a huge tax rebate. Or if you have the money but wait to pay it off you get a tax break for a few years. It would be a good idea to Also let companies provide a match or something like 401k. 
 

But nah, the one side will say remove it all and the other will say no and both will go drive away in their $100k cars and eat at a fancy dinner on a donor’s dime. Then virtue signal about how they tried so hard for everyone. 
 

 

 

38 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I don’t disagree with any of this. 1.5-2% is very reasonable. An employer match type is a good idea, as would be viewing it as some sort of tax credit. Putting a cap at 15 years with that type of interest rate is a fine, and I wish more universities would give tuition breaks for part time workers. So, kid who works 20 hours per week on campus, you get a 50% tuition remission per course you take, but you’re on your own for room and board, or you can choose to live off campus.

Make more fringe benefits a priority.

The cost for public universities has to be addressed imo. 
 

OSU for example is 26k a year for tuition plus food/housing, 13k just for tuition. And this is just for in state tuition, out of state is 37k.  Like, shouldn’t we be encouraging young people to perhaps move and see new things, experience something different, get away from home a bit?  Idk man, it’s just gotten to the point where the idea of sending your kid to the college of their choice is something between not possible and laughable unless you’re going to make paying for it your life’s mission and goal.  100k for 4 years of college to learn a job that’s likely necessary for society?  Idk man..

In 1975 Harvard cost $5,350 a year.  That’s the equivalent of $30k today, less than OSU’s out of state tuition.  Of course today Harvard is 52k and with room and board 76k.  Per year.  That’s a quarter million dollar undergrad education.

[Dawgpoun8017]

13 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

The police budget will take care of itself.  They are down several hundred officers currently, and have 9 people in their academy.  No one wants that job, and I don't blame anyone.  They talk about needing to do a better job recruiting, but that's not going to work, not in today's society.  Who wants that smoke?  You put your life on the line (literally) every day.  No one respects you.  You are lied to on the regular.  You are scrutinized for every decision you make.  There really isn't enough money, or a big enough budget for that job. 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2023/05/amid-a-shortage-of-officers-cleveland-police-academy-has-its-smallest-class-of-recruits-in-25-years.html

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

10 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

The police budget will take care of itself.  They are down several hundred officers currently, and have 9 people in their academy.  No one wants that job, and I don't blame anyone.  They talk about needing to do a better job recruiting, but that's not going to work, not in today's society.  Who wants that smoke?  You put your life on the line (literally) every day.  No one respects you.  You are lied to on the regular.  You are scrutinized for every decision you make.  There really isn't enough money, or a big enough budget for that job. 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/crime/2023/05/amid-a-shortage-of-officers-cleveland-police-academy-has-its-smallest-class-of-recruits-in-25-years.html

Maybe, but I’ve yet to see a police issue that money won’t get thrown at in an attempt to solve. Police and military are the 2 things that can’t be defunded it seems, literally everything else is fair game.

But also, part of the reason people have these views on police is because the DO handle a lot of situations poorly, in part because they’re being asked to be the catch all answer for literally every societal issue.

Homeless person existing?  Call the cops.

Mentally ill person in crisis?  Call the cops.

Person struggling financially and can’t pay rent?  Call the cops.

We continue to send people who are wholly unqualified to handle these situations out to solve them with no tools but a ticket book and a pair of cuffs and the give the surprised pikachu face when they don’t address the actual issue.  They’re being set up for failure from the start. 
 

Stop sending some person with police academy training to deal with things a psychiatrist or social worker should be dealing with.  Stop using jails as our solution to mental health, substance abuse and homelessness.  Or at least stop pretending you expect to see positive results from what we’re doing.