vike daddy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 3 hours ago, JDBrocks said: woah. As sad as I would've been to see Griffen go, that would have been a great move. BUT SPIELMAN NEVER TRIES ANYTHING TO IMPROVE THE OFFENSIVE LINE!! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 2 hours ago, vike daddy said: BUT SPIELMAN NEVER TRIES ANYTHING TO IMPROVE THE OFFENSIVE LINE!! Is that sarcasm really necessary? Sorry but I had too 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Sarcasm is always necessary. Did I do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 3 hours ago, vike daddy said: BUT SPIELMAN NEVER TRIES ANYTHING TO IMPROVE THE OFFENSIVE LINE!! It doesn't matter if he "tries", it matters if he succeeds. I don't think anyone has ever said he doesn't try.....we've said he's used his draft capital wrong or picked the wrong FAs or made bad draft picks......some of which weren't hindsight comments either. He should be better at this than random people on a website..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, PrplChilPill said: It doesn't matter if he "tries", it matters if he succeeds. I don't think anyone has ever said he doesn't try.....we've said he's used his draft capital wrong or picked the wrong FAs or made bad draft picks......some of which weren't hindsight comments either. He should be better at this than random people on a website..... Yeah his track record for OL and the Vikings is pretty bad. Kalil looked like a home run early on though but obviously not the case. Bond I thought had potential at OG never turned out, same with Yankey who was a great player in college. TJ Clemmings was ok but clearly a project, Thompson had potential but never turned out, Beavers I never did like much and was bad in the NFL. Elflein as a rookie looked good but not so much last year and O'Neill last year was just ok. 2012 4th Matt Kalil OT 2013 196 Jeff Baca G 214 Travis Bond G 2014 145 David Yankey G 2015 110 TJ Clemmings OT 185 Tyrus Thompson OT 228 Austin Shepard G 2016 121 Willie Beavers OG 2017 62 Pat Elflein C/OG 180 Danny Isidora OG 2018 62 Brian O'Neill OT 213 Colby Gossett G In terms of FA lineman, the ones of note would be Reiff and Remmers lately and Remmers was awful. Will see how Kline does this year but I am not that hopeful. Nick Easton they brought in and he was solid but clearly did not stick around. Edited April 11, 2019 by Ozzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 1 hour ago, PrplChilPill said: It doesn't matter if he "tries", it matters if he succeeds. I don't think anyone has ever said he doesn't try.....we've said he's used his draft capital wrong or picked the wrong FAs or made bad draft picks......some of which weren't hindsight comments either. He should be better at this than random people on a website..... Amen! Say it louder! And please keep reminding people about this. It is the results. Is he unlucky? Not good at it? A victim of some other circumstance? More importantly, does it matter? Nope, not by this point. The time where excuses matters has passed him by. The more relevant question at this point is, does Zygi Wilf have what it takes to lead this team? If not, we might as well pack our bags because Wilf seems to be in it for the long haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikestyle Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, Ozzy said: 2012 4th Matt Kalil OT 2013 196 Jeff Baca G 214 Travis Bond G 2014 145 David Yankey G 2015 110 TJ Clemmings OT 185 Tyrus Thompson OT 228 Austin Shepard G 2016 121 Willie Beavers OG 2017 62 Pat Elflein C/OG 180 Danny Isidora OG 2018 62 Brian O'Neill OT 213 Colby Gossett G Not a great start, has been better recently, has to nail this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, vikestyle said: Not a great start, has been better recently, has to nail this one. Yeah in terms of FA I would say he brought in Fusco or Berger but that was before he was officially the general manager in 2012 but was the VP of player personnel since 2006 so maybe one could include those two who if healthy were pretty good. Alex Boone he brought in, thought that would be good and did not turn out. Same with Compton last year but not surprise he was nothing great, that was just a grab for a guard. The fact he was a starter for us was sad really, oh but he played with Kirk...I mean who gives a damn, surprise the Jets signed him. Overall they never have spent high on OL recently and this up coming draft could be the highest drafted OL talent since Kalil clearly. Edited April 11, 2019 by Ozzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: Amen! Say it louder! And please keep reminding people about this. It is the results. Is he unlucky? Not good at it? A victim of some other circumstance? More importantly, does it matter? Nope, not by this point. The time where excuses matters has passed him by. The more relevant question at this point is, does Zygi Wilf have what it takes to lead this team? If not, we might as well pack our bags because Wilf seems to be in it for the long haul. Zygi is not the issue, they have been great owners and kept the team here and brought in a stadium which they needed or they would have left. Spielman has not been so bad he deserves to be fired, but I think a lot of the defensive hits they have got have been coach related in terms of the coach picking the player along with GM help. To say Zim had no say in drafting some of those defensive ballers out there, yeah he did... I remember hating on Steussie back in the day, that guy was awful and got penalized constantly and got beat for sacks. But that OL probably will never be matched in Vikings history and Steussie would be solid compared to some of the tackles they have had recently. 1999 OT Korey Stringer OG Randall McDaniel C Jeff Christy / Matt Birk OG David Dixon / Corbin Lacina OT Todd Steussie But that team had an awful defense, so you cannot have both. I am glad we have a defense at least, now all that is need is a run game but is hard with a QB they paid that much money to and with a defense that underachieved like they did last year. They missed Tony a ton as a coach and he was obviously a great coach considering how that line looked and blocked last year and how they could not run the football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 This is the OL Spielman has now, hopefully will look a little better with a 1st round OL draft pick but will see. If they are indeed running a more athletic based zone type system similar to Denver from back in the day with Rick Dennison. OT Reiff / A.Bisnowaty OG ??? / D. Isidora C Elflein / B. Jones OG Kline / D. Dozier OT O'Neill / A.Collins Sadly with the QB one has in Kirk Cousins he is not that good at play action in my book, is totally not good at getting out of the pocket and creating, and is not good at roll outs either or bootleg type action. Is not that athletic or mobile, can move a little but is not at his best when moving around I feel. So if they are doing this type of offense he limits them in many ways, sadly it would have been a better offense for Case Keenum who can move around and do some bootleg things and create but does not have the down the field accuracy or arm Kirk has developed. Will see if Kirk can adjust to this type of system if they do indeed go that way or if it is a mix of different offensive and OL styles. Hopefully the type is like the Bills with Dennison in 2017 compared to what the Jets were last season in 2018 and the run game. But clearly the Bills had Tyrod Taylor who Kirk Cousins is not athletically and they do not have McCoy either running the ball along with Tyrod and Mike Tolbert. So again the QB run game in zone OL blocking systems is key more often than not and Kirk is not a fit with that really and cannot provide much in terms of running the football on bootleg play actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 Cousins is actually one of the league’s best play action quarterbacks, and has been since he became a full time starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Cousins is actually one of the league’s best play action quarterbacks, and has been since he became a full time starter. Says what? Is he good at bootlegs? No. Is he good at rolling out of the pocket throwing the football outside of the pocket? No. He is all that deceptive in his play action fakes? No. All the years Kirk started on Washington they never had a dominating run game, maybe that has something to do with it but honestly to me it was never a great skill of his in college or the NFL. He is not a roll out bootleg type QB, and that could be a problem because that has been huge part of that Denver zone run scheme, obviously the scheme can change however. I am not talking simple play action either, the token fakes that no one really goes for half the time and the QB is in shot gun more often than not already anyway, kind of like a fake zone read action that no one as biting on early last year under DeFilippo because no one thought Cousins would run it actually. I am talking I formation play action under center in the zone OL blocking system which Kirk if asked to do it could struggle. Stretch zone run plays and bootlegs off that, yeah he might struggle with that, will see if they even run that kind of system but things are leaning that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Yeah in terms of FA I would say he brought in Fusco or Berger but that was before he was officially the general manager in 2012 but was the VP of player personnel since 2006 so maybe one could include those two who if healthy were pretty good. Alex Boone he brought in, thought that would be good and did not turn out. Same with Compton last year but not surprise he was nothing great, that was just a grab for a guard. The fact he was a starter for us was sad really, oh but he played with Kirk...I mean who gives a damn, surprise the Jets signed him. Overall they never have spent high on OL recently and this up coming draft could be the highest drafted OL talent since Kalil clearly. Fusco was drafted by the Vikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 A QBs running ability has nothing to do with play action. Play action is not intended for the QB to be a running threat. And if you don’t think that Kirk Cousins is a fit for the “Denver ZBS”, you might want to go back and look at who developed that system, and who drafted Kirk Cousins. Hint, it’s the same guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Fusco was drafted by the Vikes. True, I misspoke and included him with Berger. Still hard to find lineman who were even successful drafted or as a FA to be honest. Had Ryan Cook which was awful but Spielman was only VP then, Phil Loadholt was good and a steal but could never stay healthy. Bryant McKinnie was pretty good but only made one Pro Bowl in his career, but late in it did get beat a ton out there but at least was serviceable. And they brought in Hutchinson which was one of their better FA OL gets but even he was on the slight decline to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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