FGK Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: I'm not talking star players, I'm in a similar position I want 4 good-great players then 4 good back ups. You're just not going to get this. Nobody has this. The teams in the championship game have between 2 and 3 good starters on the DL. Most teams have at least one bad or below average starter, let alone not even having an average one. 14 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Smith sucks, he had 2 qb hits last season. Ogbah can be the 4th de, avery the 3rd, but counted as a lb. We still need a starter and 1 more quality player Smith barely ever played. Dude can be my 4th DE this year just fine. Ogbah #3. Again, it's all about expectations. Avery I'm not sure how to count because he'll play LB a lot but he'll be rushing most of the time. 15 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: We dont need a wr or a te imo Yeeeeeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and disagree with you here. 16 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: we are set at oline if we resign Robinson and we have 3 decent tackles and 4 decent interior guys. We have what now? Robinson is a retread who couldn't stick at the position ANYWHERE else, Hubbard and Harrison looked like dog poo for the first half of the season. Like, I won't be super pissed if we go into next year without an addition at Tackle, but it's FAR from an ideal scenario. Overarching point: I think you are doing for DL what we did with OL for so long, having ridiculously high expectations that will never really be met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: You're just not going to get this. Nobody has this. The teams in the championship game have between 2 and 3 good starters on the DL. Most teams have at least one bad or below average starter, let alone not even having an average one. The eagles won the superbowl last year they had 5 effective pass rushers, they all had over 11 an hits during the season, as high as 18. They also had another player with 8 qb hits and 3 sacks. That is a defensive line that is 6 deep with 3 great players. I'm not missing the point. The patriots defense is predicated on coverage more than pressure. They generate pressure with scheme not talent. We dont have the Pat's coaches Hough, so copying them probably osnt with trying. 35 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: Smith barely ever played. Dude can be my 4th DE this year just fine. Ogbah #3. Again, it's all about expectations. Avery I'm not sure how to count because he'll play LB a lot but he'll be rushing most of the time. Yeeeeeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and disagree with you here. We need a better 3rd running back and ratley couldn be replaced. If Callaway is sober he is going to get 1k yards next year, juice is fine, perriman has a narrow but effective skill set, higgins run routes, pushes off and catches the ball well. A number 1 all star wr doesnt get players to the superbowl. We dont need a wr. You can want to replace devalve, whatever. Njoku starter to come on strong at the end of the year. Our other te was an excellent blocker. 35 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: We have what now? Robinson is a retread who couldn't stick at the position ANYWHERE else, Hubbard and Harrison looked like dog poo for the first half of the season. Like, I won't be super pissed if we go into next year without an addition at Tackle, but it's FAR from an ideal scenario. Robinson was inconsistent, looking bad to good at times. We have employed a top 5 oline coach, who excels at pass pro. Robinson is going to get better if he wants to. Hubbard looked a lot better fro. Week 8 on. Rt isnt a problem. 35 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: Overarching point: I think you are doing for DL what we did with OL for so long, having ridiculously high expectations that will never really be met. Pass rush has won many teams superbowls, the 07 giants, the broncos with von Miller, the eagles pressure won them the game last year along with nick foles going bananas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 48 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Pass rush has won many teams superbowls, the 07 giants, the broncos with von Miller, the eagles pressure won them the game last year along with nick foles going bananas. You just listed pass rushes that were generated primarily by 3-4 guys. NYG was Tuck, Umeniora, and Strahan with a very solid DT rotation. Broncos were Malik Jackson, Demarcus Ware, and Von Miller. The Eagles ones is 5, but looking back it's probably 2 true top tier guys (Cox and Graham) and then a few solid guys (Barnett, Long, Jernigan). Your new, modified point of "have a great pass rush" is a no brainer, for sure. I just don't think we are as far away as your original point of "get six new DL in the offseason because we need eight legit pass rushers" would make us out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: You just listed pass rushes that were generated primarily by 3-4 guys. NYG was Tuck, Umeniora, and Strahan with a very solid DT rotation. Broncos were Malik Jackson, Demarcus Ware, and Von Miller. The Eagles ones is 5, but looking back it's probably 2 true top tier guys (Cox and Graham) and then a few solid guys (Barnett, Long, Jernigan). Your new, modified point of "have a great pass rush" is a no brainer, for sure. I just don't think we are as far away as your original point of "get six new DL in the offseason because we need eight legit pass rushers" would make us out to be. I haven't modified that much really, you had trouble with definitions. You used the term super star which I never have. Good-great is what I want. I'd rather have weakness at Lb than dline. The giants were a 4-3 so were the eagles. It is irrelevant anyway, pressure interior an exterior is what is important. The only guys I keep are ogbah, garrett, and larry, avery is a lb, so we need 3 dts and 2-3 des imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: I want us to draft 2 dts and 2 des and sign one of each, spending big coin on one if we can. I want 8 guys that can go get the qb. We have 3 atm, garrett, larry and avery, 5 to go. 8 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: I haven't modified that much really, you had trouble with definitions. Looks pretty clearly like you want to draft/sign six new DL to be our starters/backups next year and you want every single one of them to be legit pass rushers. That's both unrealistic and a bad team-building strategy and I don't think anything you've said challenges that. You've also added Ogbah during the course of the argument to not make it seem like you were calling for a better player than Ogbah to be our 4th DE. And 3-4 was a discussion of # and not scheme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: Looks pretty clearly like you want to draft/sign six new DL to be our starters/backups next year and you want every single one of them to be legit pass rushers. That's both unrealistic and a bad team-building strategy and I don't think anything you've said challenges that. You've also added Ogbah during the course of the argument to not make it seem like you were calling for a better player than Ogbah to be our 4th DE. And 3-4 was a discussion of # and not scheme. I want them to be functional pass rushers, people who put pressure on the qb . Chris smith isnt a legit rusher of the pass, he wasnt in 2018 or any years prior, I checked, holding onto him is redundant, same with coley, zettel, et al. This year we did not have more than 3 guys who could consistently disrupt. Myles did we each game, Larry was awesome but inconsistent, which I dont hold against him as a dt. Avery was inconsistent and looks like he will be legit. Ogbah I'd give another year he had two solid years and then was bad last year. Phili was 8 deep, also some of their lbs could get to the qb. The giants did it with multiple dlinemen and lbs, they won the superbowl against the Pat's, I am sure you can recall. That is the model that I want. Pressure coming from the interior and exterior, only needing to send 4 guys. Having 8 guys means that pressure still comes in the 4th quarter because your guys aren't gassed. That is what won phili the superbowl. I want the browns to win the superbowl. I might be wrong in the number of recruits we need but it would be by 1 not anymore than that. We need 5 guys, 3 dts and two des. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: I want them to be functional pass rushers, people who put pressure on the qb . Chris smith isnt a legit rusher of the pass, he wasnt in 2018 or any years prior, I checked, holding onto him is redundant, same with coley, zettel, et al. This year we did not have more than 3 guys who could consistently disrupt. Myles did we each game, Larry was awesome but inconsistent, which I dont hold against him as a dt. Avery was inconsistent and looks like he will be legit. Ogbah I'd give another year he had two solid years and then was bad last year. Phili was 8 deep, also some of their lbs could get to the qb. The giants did it with multiple dlinemen and lbs, they won the superbowl against the Pat's, I am sure you can recall. That is the model that I want. Pressure coming from the interior and exterior, only needing to send 4 guys. Having 8 guys means that pressure still comes in the 4th quarter because your guys aren't gassed. That is what won phili the superbowl. I want the browns to win the superbowl. I might be wrong in the number of recruits we need but it would be by 1 not anymore than that. We need 5 guys, 3 dts and two des. Alright, I'm done arguing this cause you just aren't really responding except to say "I still want." Go ahead and keep wishing for the rainbows and unicorns too cause that's about how real a depth chart of eight legit pass rushers is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 @NudeTayne we need a mod in here asap to monitor this situation especially freaky. He's getting a little steamed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said: Alright, I'm done arguing this cause you just aren't really responding except to say "I still want." Go ahead and keep wishing for the rainbows and unicorns too cause that's about how real a depth chart of eight legit pass rushers is. Nyg, phili did it. I'm not talking steamy brown dumbs here. I have given you serious replies without any mocking bro. Name calling and mocking should be reserved for defending Baker in nfl gen. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: I want them to be functional pass rushers, people who put pressure on the qb . Chris smith isnt a legit rusher of the pass, he wasnt in 2018 or any years prior, I checked, holding onto him is redundant, same with coley, zettel, et al. This year we did not have more than 3 guys who could consistently disrupt. Myles did we each game, Larry was awesome but inconsistent, which I dont hold against him as a dt. Avery was inconsistent and looks like he will be legit. Ogbah I'd give another year he had two solid years and then was bad last year. Phili was 8 deep, also some of their lbs could get to the qb. The giants did it with multiple dlinemen and lbs, they won the superbowl against the Pat's, I am sure you can recall. That is the model that I want. Pressure coming from the interior and exterior, only needing to send 4 guys. Having 8 guys means that pressure still comes in the 4th quarter because your guys aren't gassed. That is what won phili the superbowl. I want the browns to win the superbowl. I might be wrong in the number of recruits we need but it would be by 1 not anymore than that. We need 5 guys, 3 dts and two des. Eagles werent 8 deep? They were max 7 deep. They basically had a 3 man rotation at DT and a 4 DE rotation. Eagle DL total snaps and percentage.in the Superbowl they basically road Cox for 90% of the snaps at DT and basically Graham, Curry, and Long. So basically in the superbowl they mainly went to 5 guys for a majority of the game Brandon Graham DE 663 64.37% Vinny Curry DE 576 55.92% Derek Barnett DE 424 41.17% Chris Long DE 496 48.16% Timmy Jernigan DT 493 47.86% Fletcher Cox DT 607 58.93% Beau Allen DT 423 41.07% um those Giants defensive line units werent about depth. It was about versatility with them. They had the wildcard with Tuck who could play anywhere on the DL. Sucks for the 07' unit you cant find snap count numbers but that DL unit only had 5 DL record 2 or more tackle for loses, only 6 record 2 QB hits or more, 4 DL who had 2 or more sacks. Giants DL was just ultra talented with Osi, Strahan, and Tuck. Browns dont need crazy depth, like having 8 guys. They just need legit talent at starters and as back ups. Browns DL didnt struggle because they didnt have 8 guys to rotate in. They didnt have another legit starting DT next to Ogun and they didnt have a legit starting DE opposite to Garrett. Ogbah was pretty garbage this pass season. Browns werent missing a 7th and 8th guy, they were missing the 3rd and 4th guy to go along with #1 Garrett and #2 Ogun Dorsey was able to fix a lot of holes last year, he wasnt going to fix all of them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, buno67 said: Eagles werent 8 deep? They were max 7 deep. They basically had a 3 man rotation at DT and a 4 DE rotation. Eagle DL total snaps and percentage.in the Superbowl they basically road Cox for 90% of the snaps at DT and basically Graham, Curry, and Long. So basically in the superbowl they mainly went to 5 guys for a majority of the game Brandon Graham DE 663 64.37% Vinny Curry DE 576 55.92% Derek Barnett DE 424 41.17% Chris Long DE 496 48.16% Timmy Jernigan DT 493 47.86% Fletcher Cox DT 607 58.93% Beau Allen DT 423 41.07% um those Giants defensive line units werent about depth. It was about versatility with them. They had the wildcard with Tuck who could play anywhere on the DL. Sucks for the 07' unit you cant find snap count numbers but that DL unit only had 5 DL record 2 or more tackle for loses, only 6 record 2 QB hits or more, 4 DL who had 2 or more sacks. Giants DL was just ultra talented with Osi, Strahan, and Tuck. Browns dont need crazy depth, like having 8 guys. They just need legit talent at starters and as back ups. Browns DL didnt struggle because they didnt have 8 guys to rotate in. They didnt have another legit starting DT next to Ogun and they didnt have a legit starting DE opposite to Garrett. Ogbah was pretty garbage this pass season. Browns werent missing a 7th and 8th guy, they were missing the 3rd and 4th guy to go along with #1 Garrett and #2 Ogun Dorsey was able to fix a lot of holes last year, he wasnt going to fix all of them. the giants also had LBs getting to the QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Kiwibrown said: the giants also had LBs getting to the QB. Yeah, your cousin Mathias Kiwianuka 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said: Yeah, your cousin Mathias Kiwianuka Also their MLB. your mum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Also their MLB. your mum. Actually he was probably better looking than my mum and more feminine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said: Actually he was probably better looking than my mum and more feminine. https://i.imgur.com/PkPSTzT.mp4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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