big_palooka Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 15 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: You forgot to mention 2 RB's in their 30's and our starter Lynch who I don't think has had a run over 5 yards in 4 years lol You din't even bring up our top flight D SMH People are flat out clueless and trying to convince them that Carr is not the problem is clearly a waste of time. Those same people think the answer to success is trading Carr, drafting a QB who may or may not be average and signing a stop gap piece of trash like Taylor, Fitzgarbage or Fools Gold Foles. The answer is that some people clearly don't understand football or what a good QB looks like. Carr is not the problem. But he's currently not proving to be the solution. It will be worth monitoring for 2019: His growth in the offense year 2 Can he learn to handle pressure without folding Can he overcome laying eggs against KC Can he learn to use his feet more to create plays Can he cut out the bonehead decisions that create turnovers Can he learn to handle pressure without folding Yes, I listed one twice... Because that is the biggest flaw in his game. When gets hit early and he get skittish in the pocket for the rest of the game. Starts making terrible throws off his back foot and plays scared. It's why KC has had his number. They know if you hit him, he starts hearing footsteps. This is also why I have major concern with him. He's going into year 6 of his career and has yet to erase his college stigma about folding under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonSav Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 2/3/2019 at 1:52 PM, Frankie2Gunz said: You forgot to mention 2 RB's in their 30's and our starter Lynch who I don't think has had a run over 5 yards in 4 years lol You din't even bring up our top flight D SMH People are flat out clueless and trying to convince them that Carr is not the problem is clearly a waste of time. Those same people think the answer to success is trading Carr, drafting a QB who may or may not be average and signing a stop gap piece of trash like Taylor, Fitzgarbage or Fools Gold Foles. The answer is that some people clearly don't understand football or what a good QB looks like. I certainly agree that Carr is not part of the problem. But I think the factor that is getting overlooked is his contract. I think a lot of the criticism of Carr is not merely his talent but the amount he is paid compared to his production. That leads directly to your points regarding the overall quality of the rest of the roster. It becomes increasingly difficult to build out the rest of the roster when your QB accounts for a large portion of the cap. Just the reality. Warranted or not, big contract QBs will always receive a disproportionate amount of criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roninho Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Sure we could have spend $20 mio on 2 better starters if Carr was still on his rookie contract. I dont think it would have made a big difference last year. Our first issue is that we lack talent all over the place, which isnt caused by lack of cap but caused by spending money the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 2/3/2019 at 1:27 PM, Bitty 2.0 said: He played with a 34 year old WR, a 7th round pick, the worst O-line in the NFL and he threw for 4000 yards but you still don’t think he elevated them? He elevated Jordy? 2018 - Carr GM Rec Tar Yds Ave TD 15 63 88 739 11.7 3 2017 - Hundley 15 53 88 482 9.1 6 He really elevated his play from Brett Hundley. He elevated Marcell Ateman? 7 15 31 154 10.3 1 I do not know if Ateman could duplicate those numbers with another QB. The OTs were horrible but we were able to be average at best in between the 20's but we were horrible when it came to scoring and in the 4th. I put that more on the QB. So yes he was handicapped by the line but he did not figure a way around the issues of the line. I understand possibly why because he was trying to get Gruden's offense down so I give him a pass here. In the end he did not elevate the lines play. Frankie if you take what Martin and Lynch did combined it is not a bad season. 262 carries, 1100 yds, and 7 TDs. In todays game those are top ten numbers. I combined them because there attempts are both pretty low and Lynch was hurt most of the season. Now did Carr's game help the run game or did the run game help Carr. Probably back and forth. Carr had a below average year and the team as a whole sucked. Carr never figured out a way to produce with what he had on hand. He did not elevate anyone's game and he received little help. Carr is a starting QB but not a good QB. The only player we have to go off of is Cooper and he clearly became a better player in Dallas compared to Oakland. Why? It is a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Let's stop with the carr blame game. We will see this year. Go get mike Davis from Seattle for rb. Good pass catcher and hard shifty runner. Can be an every down back and cheaper underrated signing. Doug sorry thanks, but bye. Davis is a better version. Go grab two wrs in fa and back that up with two draft picks. One early, one later. Sign a MLB/Olb, DE, and a starting cb. Maybe grab juwan james at RT. Then draft rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 7 hours ago, roi34 said: Let's stop with the carr blame game. We will see this year. Go get mike Davis from Seattle for rb. Good pass catcher and hard shifty runner. Can be an every down back and cheaper underrated signing. Doug sorry thanks, but bye. Davis is a better version. Go grab two wrs in fa and back that up with two draft picks. One early, one later. Sign a MLB/Olb, DE, and a starting cb. Maybe grab juwan james at RT. Then draft rest First it seems like a simple fix and I think many on this board would agree that attacking FA and the draft this way would have a beneficial impact. For whatever reason there are certain teams that seem to not go where many casual fans can see as painfully obvious directions to go in. The one year we drafted and almost everyone said RM made the right decisions was 2014. Every other year we have pointed out the missteps of this team with ease. There is a mistake once in a while but for the most part we hit all the time. From coaches to FAs to draft picks. I honestly believe this team would be better off if we formed a front office with the posters on this board. Maybe Mayock does not allow Cable to make draft decisions and Gruden would not be allowed to trade for trash and trade away our top talent for far less than their worth. Second I agree with giving Carr another year but we should get a low risk viable backup plan this year for Carr. We will have to start from square one in 2020 instead of having to reload if he fails. I think a QB that has shown the ability to stand in the pocket and take a shot to deliver a throw and has the ability to run would be good. Unless of course you are comfortable going with AJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 15 hours ago, drfrey13 said: He elevated Jordy? 2018 - Carr GM Rec Tar Yds Ave TD 15 63 88 739 11.7 3 2017 - Hundley 15 53 88 482 9.1 6 He really elevated his play from Brett Hundley. lol bud I really hope you were joking. Cant just include his 6 weeks with rodgers and claim it was brett hundley. Week 1-6 : Jordy had 290 yards and 6 TDS - this was Aaron Rodgers Weeks 7- 14: Jordy had 153 yards 0 TDS - this was Hundley so with a full season at those numbers Itd be a whopping 350 yards and 0 TDS Please, lets try to all be educated and realistic fans. Not throw out fake numbers and stats to make your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 8 hours ago, BackinBlack said: lol bud I really hope you were joking. Cant just include his 6 weeks with rodgers and claim it was brett hundley. Week 1-6 : Jordy had 290 yards and 6 TDS - this was Aaron Rodgers Weeks 7- 14: Jordy had 153 yards 0 TDS - this was Hundley so with a full season at those numbers Itd be a whopping 350 yards and 0 TDS Please, lets try to all be educated and realistic fans. Not throw out fake numbers and stats to make your point. Not joking just an honest mistake. Thought the 7 was a 1 on the games played. Just like you probably made an honest mistake by including Jordy's 60 yard game against Minni as yardage from Rodgers since he completed 2 passes for 18 yards and Jordy only caught 1 for 10 yards from Rodgers. I guess we can all make mistakes. If you have read most of my information on this board my stats are pretty spot on except for this one and maybe 2-3 over the past 5 years. But since we have cleared up my mistake why don't you address the other 80% of the post with good info. Although the last part came across as a little personal I will let it slide because I do not think your intentions where to insinuate that I am unrealistic, a liar, or uneducated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 17 hours ago, drfrey13 said: First it seems like a simple fix and I think many on this board would agree that attacking FA and the draft this way would have a beneficial impact. For whatever reason there are certain teams that seem to not go where many casual fans can see as painfully obvious directions to go in. The one year we drafted and almost everyone said RM made the right decisions was 2014. Every other year we have pointed out the missteps of this team with ease. There is a mistake once in a while but for the most part we hit all the time. From coaches to FAs to draft picks. I honestly believe this team would be better off if we formed a front office with the posters on this board. Maybe Mayock does not allow Cable to make draft decisions and Gruden would not be allowed to trade for trash and trade away our top talent for far less than their worth. Second I agree with giving Carr another year but we should get a low risk viable backup plan this year for Carr. We will have to start from square one in 2020 instead of having to reload if he fails. I think a QB that has shown the ability to stand in the pocket and take a shot to deliver a throw and has the ability to run would be good. Unless of course you are comfortable going with AJ. Aj doesnt thrill me no. But depends what else avail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 5 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Not joking just an honest mistake. Thought the 7 was a 1 on the games played. Just like you probably made an honest mistake by including Jordy's 60 yard game against Minni as yardage from Rodgers since he completed 2 passes for 18 yards and Jordy only caught 1 for 10 yards from Rodgers. I guess we can all make mistakes. If you have read most of my information on this board my stats are pretty spot on except for this one and maybe 2-3 over the past 5 years. But since we have cleared up my mistake why don't you address the other 80% of the post with good info. Although the last part came across as a little personal I will let it slide because I do not think your intentions where to insinuate that I am unrealistic, a liar, or uneducated. The mistake is trying to pull anything and everything you possibly can to try to validate an opinion that doesn't matter, to be quite frank. Until proven otherwise, Carr is "our" starting QB. It's your right to not like this, but everyone has an opinion on it and I think both sides have dug in. For now, those who want to replace Carr, are just going to have to wait. Beating a dead horse is not going to change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 5 hours ago, drfrey13 said: Not joking just an honest mistake. Thought the 7 was a 1 on the games played. Just like you probably made an honest mistake by including Jordy's 60 yard game against Minni as yardage from Rodgers since he completed 2 passes for 18 yards and Jordy only caught 1 for 10 yards from Rodgers. I guess we can all make mistakes. If you have read most of my information on this board my stats are pretty spot on except for this one and maybe 2-3 over the past 5 years. But since we have cleared up my mistake why don't you address the other 80% of the post with good info. Although the last part came across as a little personal I will let it slide because I do not think your intentions where to insinuate that I am unrealistic, a liar, or uneducated. haha my bad, last line def wasnt directed at you, just a general statement... I read hear a lot, and respect your opinions @drfrey13 Ill admit, Carr has had back to back down years, but he is still the best thing the raiders have had at QB since Gannon, so I probably got a little to emotional over to your comments haha. To respond, " the 20's but we were horrible when it came to scoring and in the 4th. I put that more on the QB. So yes he was handicapped by the line but he did not figure a way around the issues of the line. I understand possibly why because he was trying to get Gruden's offense down so I give him a pass here. In the end he did not elevate the lines play. " I think Carrs quick release got him / the oline out of a few sacks, but he also is bad at feeling pressure from blind side, and just folds into interior pressure at times. It is definitely frustrating, but its better than throwing picks. I really believe Todd Downing beat into DC that just live for the next possession mentality, and I am really hoping Gruden can snap him out of this. I think Downing really hurt Carr, and this whole play it safe and conservative needs to be shaken. Inside the redzone, is obviously a smaller field easier for defenders to cover. When our 1st read didnt win his initial match up, the pocket had already been collapsed easily over 50% of time. I believe the Redzone is all about play calling, may be on Carr may be on Gruden. I expect Carrs numbers to improve here next year. Need a big bodied WR too. Us being bad in the 4th, agreed we were brutal, on both sides of the ball... condition, the fact we were an old team, just talent based? I dont know, but again, weve all seen Carr lead 4th Q comebacks, the guy normally improves as games go on but, our team was out of sync all year. Our run game was decent overall, but we had way to many fumbles at key points in game. And while 1100 yards would be top 6 in yards, it would have been the 2nd most attemps. nothing to write home about, but yes a good season. the 7 Rush TDs, i think goes again to show our teams inability in the redzone, and makes it tough to put on Carr. When you have the highest paid oline, I expect 13-14 Rush TDs on the year I also believe, going back to Carrs strong season, he needs to get in a rythm, he starts games out poorly and gets better as he gets in sync. Is this a problem, yup a big one, but i think Gruden could have helped him out more here. "Carr had a below average year and the team as a whole sucked. Carr never figured out a way to produce with what he had on hand. He did not elevate anyone's game and he received little help. Carr is a starting QB but not a good QB. The only player we have to go off of is Cooper and he clearly became a better player in Dallas compared to Oakland. Why? It is a matter of opinion." "Carr never figured out a way to produce with what he had on hand" i disagree here, he never figured out a way to Win with what he had, but he produced. Threw his most yards in a season, had his highest completition percent, and 2nd lowest Int numbers.. after having what 6 ints the first 4 weeks or something? All this while being sacked the highest percent in his career by far. Obviously the TDs were down, but he still produced. He had us in position to win a lot of the early season games and our D collapsed, then our season snowballed. Saying he did not elevate anyones game is tough to compare, I think you underestimate how bad our roster is/ was. I think he helped elevate Jared Cooks game, and Cook was our only go to guy. As for Cooper, he and Carr just didnt match well. There is a reason why the raiders always are clsoe to the league lead in drops, and i do think it has to do with either the ball coming out of carrs hand funny, or him throwing it too hard.. but when sure handed players like coop or crab come to OAK and start dropping the ball it has to raise questions. Dak is perfect for Cooper, he doesnt throw a hard ball, and with the seperation Coop gets, it doesnt need to be drilled in. Carr needs to work on this, Carr loses a lot of accuracy when he tries to throw a touch pass. He is a gun slinger, but when a player is wide open, give them the ally oop. Again, didnt mean to come across as attacking you.. just let that point get under my skin cause ive heard it a few times before.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 3 hours ago, BackinBlack said: As for Cooper, he and Carr just didnt match well. There is a reason why the raiders always are clsoe to the league lead in drops, and i do think it has to do with either the ball coming out of Carr's hand funny, or him throwing it too hard.. but when sure handed players like coop or crab come to OAK and start dropping the ball it has to raise questions. Dak is perfect for Cooper, he doesnt throw a hard ball, and with the seperation Coop gets, it doesnt need to be drilled in. Carr needs to work on this, Carr loses a lot of accuracy when he tries to throw a touch pass. He is a gun slinger, but when a player is wide open, give them the ally oop. I have brought this up before because a lot of people have put it on the WRs for the drops. Not that we have had the best hands team in the NFL but being close to the bottom in drops is bad and the only consistent thing is Carr. I wondered if it had something to do with his throwing motion or how it comes out of his hand. I think Carr is deserving of another year for a few reasons and I hope he does pull it together. I have said it for a few years that we will go as far as he can carry us but I have just seen a few things that are red flags. None of it has stopped me from wanting him to succeed. Last thing I want is to have to buy another jersey. You have great points to back up your opinions. You also see the team for what is good and bad about it so it is much easier to discuss the issues. It is frustrating however having so many questions without a clear answer to anything about this team. One of the few things most of us agree about in regards to fixing this team is that Cable should be fired but that might not even happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 hour ago, drfrey13 said: I have brought this up before because a lot of people have put it on the WRs for the drops. Not that we have had the best hands team in the NFL but being close to the bottom in drops is bad and the only consistent thing is Carr. I wondered if it had something to do with his throwing motion or how it comes out of his hand. I think Carr is deserving of another year for a few reasons and I hope he does pull it together. I have said it for a few years that we will go as far as he can carry us but I have just seen a few things that are red flags. None of it has stopped me from wanting him to succeed. Last thing I want is to have to buy another jersey. You have great points to back up your opinions. You also see the team for what is good and bad about it so it is much easier to discuss the issues. It is frustrating however having so many questions without a clear answer to anything about this team. One of the few things most of us agree about in regards to fixing this team is that Cable should be fired but that might not even happen. You’re kidding me right you’re blaming the QB for drop passes, John Elway used to break his WRs fingers with how hard he threw the ball. Since Cooper and Crabtree are still in the top 20 for droped balls this year, I guess it’s the WRs fault. https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2018&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 whats up yall, been awhile .im glad bitty showed those drop stats. I can count how many good quaterbacks ive watched play for our team over the last 43 yrs ON ONE HAND! stabler, plunkett, hoss, gannon, and DC. and none were with us for more than than 10 yrs except stabler. do I even need to list all the other garbage. Carr can be better yes, hes definitely skittish , hes only like the 16th highest paid qb now theres worse making more. qb market and draft are crap anyways. I believe carr will improve in what everyone here knows is a complex system. everyone on here knows coop wasn't living up to his #4 spot (especially leading in drops) and crabs lost concentration all the time too. definitely not carrs fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 35 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: You’re kidding me right you’re blaming the QB for drop passes, John Elway used to break his WRs fingers with how hard he threw the ball. Since Cooper and Crabtree are still in the top 20 for droped balls this year, I guess it’s the WRs fault. https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2018&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=11&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1 i wonder how many of those 6 drops came on the raiders vs the cowboys. drops are such a weird stat, i feel like Cooper had at least 6 drops for us in the first 6 weeks lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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