big_palooka Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: We're just now starting a major rebuild, we're not going to fill every need in one offseason. Great teams are built through the draft. If Carr is considered a "franchise QB' then this shouldn't be a major rebuild. Just my thought. If Carr is the guy he was paid to be, the Raiders can compete. If he's any version of what we've seen recently... then he will be scrapped and it will be a major rebuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, big_palooka said: If Carr is considered a "franchise QB' then this shouldn't be a major rebuild. Just my thought. If Carr is the guy he was paid to be, the Raiders can compete. If he's any version of what we've seen recently... then he will be scrapped and it will be a major rebuild It's a major rebuild regardless of how good Carr is. We have holes throughout the roster and are basically starting from scratch after Gruden cut or traded away the majority of Reggie's guys. What position group are we even set with right now? Almost every position could be upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Just now, NYRaider said: It's a major rebuild regardless of how good Carr is. We have holes throughout the roster and are basically starting from scratch after Gruden cut or traded away the majority of Reggie's guys. What position group are we even set with right now? Almost every position could be upgraded. You can get a LB, S and edge and upgrade the defense quickly. WR, RB and OT on offense. They could compete with the right FA signings and a couple rookies that pop early if Carr plays like he's capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 45 minutes ago, big_palooka said: You can get a LB, S and edge and upgrade the defense quickly. WR, RB and OT on offense. They could compete with the right FA signings and a couple rookies that pop early if Carr plays like he's capable. This team goes as far as Carr can take him. If it is a major rebuild then Carr is not a franchise QB. If you have a franchise QB you are close to being in the playoffs if not in the playoffs. Franchise QBs that did not make it to the playoffs this year are Big Ben, Ryan, Newton, Rodgers, and Stafford. These QBs even in bad years have their teams around .500. Until Carr shows he can elevate the play of those around him I will not consider him a franchise QB. I do not want to hear any excuses after 2019. He gets one more season to show drastic improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 There was a "source" that said Eagles will look to trade Foles for a 3rd. Do we get involved in that or hold off and see what we got in Carr while risking the 2019 season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: There was a "source" that said Eagles will look to trade Foles for a 3rd. Do we get involved in that or hold off and see what we got in Carr while risking the 2019 season? Foles is fools gold, not a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 4 hours ago, drfrey13 said: This team goes as far as Carr can take him. If it is a major rebuild then Carr is not a franchise QB. If you have a franchise QB you are close to being in the playoffs if not in the playoffs. Franchise QBs that did not make it to the playoffs this year are Big Ben, Ryan, Newton, Rodgers, and Stafford. These QBs even in bad years have their teams around .500. Until Carr shows he can elevate the play of those around him I will not consider him a franchise QB. I do not want to hear any excuses after 2019. He gets one more season to show drastic improvement. You give the talent that all the Qb's mentioned have to Carr and you have a team around .500. You put any of those QB's on the Raiders and you have a 4 win team with the heaping pile of trash roster we have. You guys crack me up putting the down season on Carr. Totally clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD1123 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 10 hours ago, drfrey13 said: There was a "source" that said Eagles will look to trade Foles for a 3rd. Do we get involved in that or hold off and see what we got in Carr while risking the 2019 season? They won't trade him for a third. Maybe a first and a third. They are talking about franchising him and then trading him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 7 hours ago, BigD1123 said: They won't trade him for a third. Maybe a first and a third. They are talking about franchising him and then trading him. That is what I read also and the same source said they will look to trade him for a 3rd. This was not my idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 17 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: You give the talent that all the Qb's mentioned have to Carr and you have a team around .500. You put any of those QB's on the Raiders and you have a 4 win team with the heaping pile of trash roster we have. You guys crack me up putting the down season on Carr. Totally clueless. So what you are saying is that we have the least amount of talent in the league? Even though we are a horrible team the Carr makes this talent less group better? Our struggles last year had nothing to do with Carr's deficiencies? We should have a good team next year since Carr is getting a second year in the same system and we have a lot of ammo to upgrade the team around him? At what point do we have to reach before you say Carr is part of the problem? Not trying to argue with you. I just want you to write your opinion of what he should do next year and what level you expect him to achieve. I am sick of hearing excuses and I am not happy with the Cooper/Mack situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 51 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: So what you are saying is that we have the least amount of talent in the league? Even though we are a horrible team the Carr makes this talent less group better? Our struggles last year had nothing to do with Carr's deficiencies? We should have a good team next year since Carr is getting a second year in the same system and we have a lot of ammo to upgrade the team around him? At what point do we have to reach before you say Carr is part of the problem? Not trying to argue with you. I just want you to write your opinion of what he should do next year and what level you expect him to achieve. I am sick of hearing excuses and I am not happy with the Cooper/Mack situation. We absolutely are in the bottom 3 in terms of overall talent. Our Oline, which had been a strength for the last few years was ranked in the bottom 3 last season, our WR's are bottom 2 in the NFL, flat out garbage, RB's are heaping piles of washed up trash, so that covers the O. Do you want me to obliterate our D as well? Can't pressure the QB, can't get turnovers, put's the O at a disadvantage bc the cant stop anyone from scoring or hold a lead. Bottom 3 overall team in terms of talent and for those who cant see that they clearly need their heads examined. I stand by my Tom Brady analogy and nothing needs to be said other than this. If Tom Brady was traded to the Raiders last offseason 99 percent of clueless NFL fans would be saying Tom Brady has lost it, he's old and needs to retire. The Raiders would be a 4ish win team with Tom Brady at QB but Tom Brady is on NE and about to win another Super Bowl. If you can't see what I am saying is a fact then you need to revaluate how you view football. Why do you assume "we should have a good team next year" because we have a lot of cap space and picks? LOL You make it sound so easy to try to get good talent to come to this dumpster fire of a team or that Gruden is some proven commodity that will attract all of these great players. No one knows what Gruden is all about being so far removed from coaching and riding the Tony Dungy constructed team all the way to the Super Bowl hardly puts him in the category of Belichick. It's not easy to convince players who want money and to win, both are important, to come and play on a team that most likely will win 4 to 6 games again. Getting talent to come to a team that has had 1 winning season in the last 15 years isn't that attractive to FA unless you vastly overpay for their services. Now to the draft. We have a GM who is a talking head on TV and has never made an NFL draft pick and has never been a GM for a reason. I'm optimistic that he we make some good selections this year but let me clue you in, making a good draft pick on every selection is not easy. Look back on prior first round drafts to see how many busts are sprinkled in. The Mack situation is interesting if you dig a bit deeper. Clearly Mack and his agent (Segal) didn't want Macks career to waste away here with the Raiders. Segal and Mack clearly had zero confidence that the Raiders were going to pay Mack what he deserved and that the team was about to start to win games during Mack's prime years. Segal is also Cooper's agent and had him shipped out as well, which shows he want's none of the payers he represents to play on this dumpster fire of a team. In a way I don't blame him until they can prove otherwise. Segal is the agent for some pretty good FA players and draft picks coming out (Ed Oliver), does that now mean that Segals players won't sign here and we wont draft players represented by Segal? That is a very distinct possibility and If that is the case we are at a major disadvantage. Who knows what other agents view the Raiders in a similar fashion as Segal does. I'm sick of excuses too, trust me I am the last person to make excuses for anyone. I will say that putting the teams regression on Carr shows me that person is clueless as to how football actually works and operates. Carr is the least of this teams problems and if Gruden/ Mayock draft a QB in the first 3 rounds of this years draft they don't get it either and this team is clearly in deep trouble for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 You have good points but my overall issue with Carr is that a franchise QB to me will elevate the players around him and this is something I do not believe Carr does. It is not a talent question. If it was about talent then Kerry Collins, Carson Palmer, and Ryan Leaf would be in the Hall of Fame. Carr has talent but does not know how to elevate or inspire. Now the talent around them becomes a little more complicated because a persons abilities must be capable of overcoming the deficiencies of the players around them. Some franchise QBs would find more success in Carr's situation than others. If a team wanted to play zone against us with Brady at QB you could give him the local JV team and he will still produce. Pre-Cooper trade I think Brady would have had a lot of success because he would know what to do pre-snap and make good decisions quickly which would have made the rookie tackles look better also. Brady is a master at keeping teams on their heels and is dam near impossible to stop using zone. You put a player like Russell Wilson on our O and he would still find success but he can not hide the deficiencies in the o-line but can overcome them and extend plays without good pass protection. We would think our WRs are better than they really are. Point is a good to great QB will figure out how to overcome the lack of talent on a team and produce. There are 15-20 QBs that we would have won more games with and if we were a better team in 2017 maybe the Mack then the Cooper trades do not happen. Maybe they still do because of Gruden's ego. Carr has shown me that he is a good player when he has good players around him. He is a starting QB in the league but he is not good enough for me to think we should not be trying to upgrade the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 12 hours ago, BigD1123 said: They won't trade him for a third. Maybe a first and a third. They are talking about franchising him and then trading him. More like 2 first round picks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitty 2.0 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 3 hours ago, drfrey13 said: You have good points but my overall issue with Carr is that a franchise QB to me will elevate the players around him and this is something I do not believe Carr does. It is not a talent question. If it was about talent then Kerry Collins, Carson Palmer, and Ryan Leaf would be in the Hall of Fame. Carr has talent but does not know how to elevate or inspire. Now the talent around them becomes a little more complicated because a persons abilities must be capable of overcoming the deficiencies of the players around them. Some franchise QBs would find more success in Carr's situation than others. If a team wanted to play zone against us with Brady at QB you could give him the local JV team and he will still produce. Pre-Cooper trade I think Brady would have had a lot of success because he would know what to do pre-snap and make good decisions quickly which would have made the rookie tackles look better also. Brady is a master at keeping teams on their heels and is dam near impossible to stop using zone. You put a player like Russell Wilson on our O and he would still find success but he can not hide the deficiencies in the o-line but can overcome them and extend plays without good pass protection. We would think our WRs are better than they really are. Point is a good to great QB will figure out how to overcome the lack of talent on a team and produce. There are 15-20 QBs that we would have won more games with and if we were a better team in 2017 maybe the Mack then the Cooper trades do not happen. Maybe they still do because of Gruden's ego. Carr has shown me that he is a good player when he has good players around him. He is a starting QB in the league but he is not good enough for me to think we should not be trying to upgrade the position. He played with a 34 year old WR, a 7th round pick, the worst O-line in the NFL and he threw for 4000 yards but you still don’t think he elevated them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said: He played with a 34 year old WR, a 7th round pick, the worst O-line in the NFL and he threw for 4000 yards but you still don’t think he elevated them? You forgot to mention 2 RB's in their 30's and our starter Lynch who I don't think has had a run over 5 yards in 4 years lol You din't even bring up our top flight D SMH People are flat out clueless and trying to convince them that Carr is not the problem is clearly a waste of time. Those same people think the answer to success is trading Carr, drafting a QB who may or may not be average and signing a stop gap piece of trash like Taylor, Fitzgarbage or Fools Gold Foles. The answer is that some people clearly don't understand football or what a good QB looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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