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NBA Draft Thread: NO trades 4 to ATL (8/17/35)


NYRaider

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1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

The 2019 class is significantly better than the 2020 class, imo.

Yep. I'm so glad the Bledsoe pick is going to translate in 2020 and not 2019. I like quite a few of the guys that are going to be available in the back end of the 1st in 2019. Do not care for much of the 2020 class.

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1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

Yep. I'm so glad the Bledsoe pick is going to translate in 2020 and not 2019. I like quite a few of the guys that are going to be available in the back end of the 1st in 2019. Do not care for much of the 2020 class.

The only two prospects that I really like in 2020 are Anthony Edwards and Cole Anthony. Wiserman, McDaniels, Carey, etc. look okay but they'll all probably be average to above average players in the league. 

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42 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

So it'd be better if Memphis lost their 1st next season?

Yes. Unless you land a top two pick that you can use on Edwards or Anthony. Cole Anthony reminds me a lot of Kyrie Irving/Derrick Rose while Anthony Edwards reminds me a lot of James Harden. Both of those guys will be elite players at the next level, after them though there's just a bunch of above-average big men prospects. 

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Zion Williamson super fun to watch no doubt and one of the best athletes to play college basketball years and one of the most impressive dunkers since arguably Vince Carter....

 

But he is listed at 6-7 285?

 

His teammate RJ Barrett is listed at 6-7 202 standing to his left.

rj-barrett-zion-williamson.jpg?w=1000&h=

 

Yeah looking at this no one would ever believe that Zion is as tall as RJ Barrett or almost 85 pounds heavier than him.  Sure Zion is a tank and muscle weighs more than fat but come on, 285 yeah right.  I thought college football is the sport that exaggerated players height and weight.  

 

 

Zion to me looks closer to 6-5 260.  Would be curious what he would look like standing next to Lebron James.  Clearly Zion will be the #1 pick but will be curious what position he ends up being, I would say more of a SF/PF type I doubt he plays the five.  But hell the NBA now a days most teams do not even have a center and hell Kenneth Farid is going to start at center possibly with the injuries they have in Houston.  Where are the 90s big men when you need them.   

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40 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Williamson was 6'7" in shoes and 272 pounds at the USA Basketball event in April. 

If he is indeed 285 that would be oddly enough the 2nd heaviest player in the NBA currently, second to this guy is what I read.  

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4376/boban-marjanovic

 

I just cannot believe that when you watch him on TV, even tonight against Jack Salt on Virginia who is 250, yeah Williamson is 35 pounds heavier than that guy?  Did not look like that on TV.  And his free throw shot is jacked, is going to have to improve his shooting stroke for sure but his quick twitch athletic ability is special no doubt.

But remember how Derrick Williams looked in college against inferior athletes, little different once he got to the NBA and was never able to be a SF because he could not shoot well enough or handle well enough.  Now Zion has the handle but his shot could be an issue, and Anthony Bennett is another, less of an athlete but arguably more versatile a shooter in college and in the post but clearly things changed for him once he got into the league.

 

Now I do not see Zion Williamson struggling like Bennett did but there are things he has to work on that is for sure and he is not this 6-7 285 pound freak athlete, more like 6-5 260 pound freak athlete which could limit him.  That 6-5 to 6-6 is the size of point guards in the NBA.  To me he does not look like Elton Brand even though he is basically the same size technically in terms of how he is listed, if anything he is bigger on paper or is supposedly.  On the court I do not see that.  I think Lebron James could push the kid around, lucky for Zion rules are the way where players cannot be that physical so Zion is already potentially one of the more physically gifted players in the league with the way it is played currently.  That size he does have will help going to the basket and playing through contact.  

 

I see him as a perimeter type guy though not a post player, I do not see him wanting to fight down low for rebounds like 'Charles Barkley' at all.  Will be interesting to watch that is for sure how he develops, and can he handle the pressure because he could be one of the most hyped players coming into the league in a long time, especially if Duke goes far in the tournament this year.  

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 Zion will be fine at the next level. His jumper needs work but you simply can't teach his athleticism, agility, or body control. Zion is having arguably the greatest freshman season in the history of college basketball this year. In the last 10 years, Jameel Warney had the highest player efficiency rating with a PER of 36.93. Zion's PER this year is 41.7. 

Compare that to the #1 picks of the last few seasons.

2018 - DeAndre Ayton: 32.6 PER

2017 - Markelle Fultz: 28.0 PER

2016 -  Ben Simmons: 29.0 PER

2015 - Karl Anthony Towns: 31.4 PER

Hell, compare that to the NBA MVP's the last few seasons. 

2018 - James Harden: 29.8 PER

2017 - Russell Westbrook: 30.6 PER

2016 - Steph Curry: 31.5 PER

LeBron James career high PER was 31.7 which just goes to highlight how amazing Zion has been this season.

 

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18 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

 Zion will be fine at the next level. His jumper needs work but you simply can't teach his athleticism, agility, or body control. Zion is having arguably the greatest freshman season in the history of college basketball this year. In the last 10 years, Jameel Warney had the highest player efficiency rating with a PER of 36.93. Zion's PER this year is 41.7. 

Compare that to the #1 picks of the last few seasons.

2018 - DeAndre Ayton: 32.6 PER

2017 - Markelle Fultz: 28.0 PER

2016 -  Ben Simmons: 29.0 PER

2015 - Karl Anthony Towns: 31.4 PER

Hell, compare that to the NBA MVP's the last few seasons. 

2018 - James Harden: 29.8 PER

2017 - Russell Westbrook: 30.6 PER

2016 - Steph Curry: 31.5 PER

LeBron James career high PER was 31.7 which just goes to highlight how amazing Zion has been this season.

 

Greatest freshman season in the history of college basketball?  Based on what a metric?

 

John Brown 36.93 2015-16 High Point
2. Jameel Warney 36.40 2015-16 Stony Brook
3. Kelly Olynyk 36.16 2012-13 Gonzaga
4. John Collins 35.91 2016-17 Wake Forest
5. Mike Muscala 35.73 2012-13 Bucknell
6. Alan Williams 35.72 2013-14 UC-Santa Barbara
7. Anthony Davis 35.13 2011-12 Kentucky
8. Thomas Walkup 34.80 2015-16 Stephen F. Austin
9. Kenneth Faried 34.74 2010-11 Morehead State
10. Mike Daum 34.55 2015-16 South Dakota State
11. Frank Kaminsky 34.43 2014-15 Wisconsin
12. DeMarcus Cousins 34.18 2009-10 Kentucky
13. Damian Lillard 33.98 2011-12 Weber State
14. Omar Samhan 33.77 2009-10 Saint Mary's (CA)
15. Jock Landale 33.74 2017-18 Saint Mary's (CA)
16. Javonte Green 33.45 2013-14 Radford
17. Javonte Green 33.42 2014-15 Radford
18. Jock Landale 33.31 2016-17 Saint Mary's (CA)
19. Noah Dahlman 33.14 2010-11 Wofford
20. Brice Johnson 33.04 2015-16 North Carolina
21. John Brown 32.84 2013-14 High Point
22. Doug McDermott 32.84 2012-13 Creighton
23. Javon McCrea 32.79 2010-11 Buffalo
24. Doug McDermott 32.77 2013-14 Creighton
25. Derrick Williams 32.75 2010-11 Arizona

 

Yeah Anthony Davis is on the list, as is Cousins and Lillard.  But so what, look at the other names on the list, so it is not exactly the be all and end all statistic of success in the future.  

 

As for best freshman, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Michael Beasley, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, Derrick Rose, John Wall, and Greg Oden.  Yeah plenty of freshman have done very well their first and only season, it is not exactly a rare thing now a days since they do not allow high school players to go to the NBA since 2005.  Heck Chris Jackson (Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf) averaged 30 freaking points a game as a freshman back in a day being a small guard, back when you could almost arm bar a player and there was no foul called...

 

Zion is super exciting and fun to watch but just think what LeBron James would have looked like if he played in college?  Or Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady or Dwight Howard.  I doubt Zion would looked better athletically than any of those players arguably.  Even Al Harrington, who could be a decent comparison for Zion he would have ripped up college no doubt.

 

 

There is a reason why LeBron James never took part in the dunk contest in his career.  That same issue could be a problem for Zion, if dunking is all people want from him and it limits his development elsewhere.   Amazing to watch and very fun but one does have to be an all around player.  Will be fun watching Zion the rest of the year though for sure.  

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I don't know too much about either class depth wise, but I just know most of the draftniks were considering 2019 weak, 2020 decent, at least they did a few months ago.

 

I can't pinpoint what changed in my mind, but I no longer view Zion as tweener who may have trouble finding a spot in the NBA, or who needs to get consistent jumper. I think his size + athleticism combo is going to continue overwhelming the opposition, even at the next level. NBA gets smaller every year, Zion should have no problem playing bully ball and pushing guys around. I am looking forward to seeing him at the next level now and hope he isn't encouraged to drop weight for the sake of endurance/health. ~280 lb forward is simply massive in today's NBA, who the hell is going to stop him driving? I still like Barrett more, which means my 1-2 hasn't actually changed, but Zion isn't really a gamble to me anymore. 

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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

If he is indeed 285 that would be oddly enough the 2nd heaviest player in the NBA currently, second to this guy is what I read.  

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4376/boban-marjanovic

 

I just cannot believe that when you watch him on TV, even tonight against Jack Salt on Virginia who is 250, yeah Williamson is 35 pounds heavier than that guy?  Did not look like that on TV.  And his free throw shot is jacked, is going to have to improve his shooting stroke for sure but his quick twitch athletic ability is special no doubt.

But remember how Derrick Williams looked in college against inferior athletes, little different once he got to the NBA and was never able to be a SF because he could not shoot well enough or handle well enough.  Now Zion has the handle but his shot could be an issue, and Anthony Bennett is another, less of an athlete but arguably more versatile a shooter in college and in the post but clearly things changed for him once he got into the league.

 

Now I do not see Zion Williamson struggling like Bennett did but there are things he has to work on that is for sure and he is not this 6-7 285 pound freak athlete, more like 6-5 260 pound freak athlete which could limit him.  That 6-5 to 6-6 is the size of point guards in the NBA.  To me he does not look like Elton Brand even though he is basically the same size technically in terms of how he is listed, if anything he is bigger on paper or is supposedly.  On the court I do not see that.  I think Lebron James could push the kid around, lucky for Zion rules are the way where players cannot be that physical so Zion is already potentially one of the more physically gifted players in the league with the way it is played currently.  That size he does have will help going to the basket and playing through contact.  

 

I see him as a perimeter type guy though not a post player, I do not see him wanting to fight down low for rebounds like 'Charles Barkley' at all.  Will be interesting to watch that is for sure how he develops, and can he handle the pressure because he could be one of the most hyped players coming into the league in a long time, especially if Duke goes far in the tournament this year.  

I agree 285 seems like a stretch, doubt he's been playing at that weight right now, but he definitely is one of those genetic freaks that carry an unusual amount of muscle. I don't think  a playing weight of 285 at next level is out of the question.

Also, he is only a freshman, and not even halfway through his 1st year. That 30-50 lb advantage he often has on the opposition, especially when it comes to boxing out and getting boards, can be neutralized in a variety of ways by experienced players (foot placement, leverages, positioning, etc.)... but as he gains experience and learns how to throw his weight around, other players won't be able to out-maneuver him, and at that point you turn the post battle into a game of size and strength, one which he will win to dominate the boards and get into the paint at will.

 

Overhyped by ESPN (next Lebron), but I think he is going to be fine even without a traditional role in the NBA. I liken it to Shaq in a way. Shaq doesn't fit in the modern NBA by any measure, but is there any doubt as to whether he would still dominate? At a certain point, physical superiority can just overwhelm defenders.

Edited by RandyMossIsBoss
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1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Zion is super exciting and fun to watch but just think what LeBron James would have looked like if he played in college?  Or Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady or Dwight Howard.  I doubt Zion would looked better athletically than any of those players arguably.  Even Al Harrington, who could be a decent comparison for Zion he would have ripped up college no doubt.

There is a reason why LeBron James never took part in the dunk contest in his career.  That same issue could be a problem for Zion, if dunking is all people want from him and it limits his development elsewhere.   Amazing to watch and very fun but one does have to be an all around player.  Will be fun watching Zion the rest of the year though for sure.  

1

On the year Zion is averaging 31.6  points, 14.1 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 3.0 steals, and 2.8 blocks per 40 minutes. In ACC play he's averaging 25.3 points, 9.8 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 2.0 blocks, and 2.0 steals in only 28 minutes per game. His PER is above and beyond anything we've seen from any player in college basketball, EVER. If you think he's just a dunker you clearly haven't been watching him, he affects the game in a number of different ways. 

Athletically there haven't been many if any players like Zion. At 270 pounds he's doing things that we've seen from only a handful of players. You don't put up the numbers that Zion is putting up if you're a one-dimensional player. 

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