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RamRod

Trade deadline - Rams trade for Fowler

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Would have been happier with Lorenzo or Hughes from BUFF..

Oh Well can't complain.. 

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Important things to remember when evaluating this deal:

1. He's better than anything we currently have on the roster in regards to EDGE rusher.

2. He's young and cheap on his rookie deal with lot's of raw athleticism and talent

3. If he doesn't pan out, we can receive a comp pick in return for him (maybe 4th or 5th)

4. If he does pan out, can we still work on a deal and add another young piece to the team.

 

Projection for the last 8 games: 5 sacks, 4 TFL, 1FF

And I would consider that a win for us. His pressures from the outside will push QB's up into the pocket that doesn't exist because of Suh and Donald. Also, keep in mind he had far less pass rushing opportunities in Jacksonville this year because they weren't putting points on the board to be in that type of situation.

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1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

Important things to remember when evaluating this deal:

1. He's better than anything we currently have on the roster in regards to EDGE rusher.

2. He's young and cheap on his rookie deal with lot's of raw athleticism and talent

3. If he doesn't pan out, we can receive a comp pick in return for him (maybe 4th or 5th)

4. If he does pan out, can we still work on a deal and add another young piece to the team.

 

Projection for the last 8 games: 5 sacks, 4 TFL, 1FF

And I would consider that a win for us. His pressures from the outside will push QB's up into the pocket that doesn't exist because of Suh and Donald. Also, keep in mind he had far less pass rushing opportunities in Jacksonville this year because they weren't putting points on the board to be in that type of situation.

1. He is?  He has/had (pre-ACL injury) more potential than Ebukam.  Has he honestly (honestly!) shown that he's better?  Not really.

2. His contract is up after this season.  The Jags didn't exercise his 5th-year option (and we don't have that option to do so).  He's a free agent after this season.

3. 2 years from now, assuming we don't spend ourselves out of it - i.e. limiting the amount of free agent spending ability we'd have to, once again, guys who were cut (I'm not playing victim here, I'm just pointing out that it does place a limitation on our flexibility within the market).

4. If he does work out, he's seeking a Top 12 contract minimum, because someone on the open market will offer it to him.

 

Also, he had far less pass-rushing opportunities in Jacksonville this season because he got passed up on the depth chart.  Not sure where you were interpreting that he'd have been getting those opportunities were they to be playing with some huge lead.  His snap count dropped MASSIVELY this season because they'd effectively decided he wasn't part of their future and they were giving other (more effective) guys the reps because they actually had a future with the team.  That's neither a huge positive or huge negative, other than the fact that Fowler couldn't earn those reps over a lesser-touted player through his in-game and practice reps, which leans more towards the negative.

 

Again, I'm not trying to be a Richard or a total buzzkill, but people need to be realistic.

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14 hours ago, The LBC said:

1. He is?  He has/had (pre-ACL injury) more potential than Ebukam.  Has he honestly (honestly!) shown that he's better?  Not really.

2. His contract is up after this season.  The Jags didn't exercise his 5th-year option (and we don't have that option to do so).  He's a free agent after this season.

3. 2 years from now, assuming we don't spend ourselves out of it - i.e. limiting the amount of free agent spending ability we'd have to, once again, guys who were cut (I'm not playing victim here, I'm just pointing out that it does place a limitation on our flexibility within the market).

4. If he does work out, he's seeking a Top 12 contract minimum, because someone on the open market will offer it to him.

 

Also, he had far less pass-rushing opportunities in Jacksonville this season because he got passed up on the depth chart.  Not sure where you were interpreting that he'd have been getting those opportunities were they to be playing with some huge lead.  His snap count dropped MASSIVELY this season because they'd effectively decided he wasn't part of their future and they were giving other (more effective) guys the reps because they actually had a future with the team.  That's neither a huge positive or huge negative, other than the fact that Fowler couldn't earn those reps over a lesser-touted player through his in-game and practice reps, which leans more towards the negative.

 

Again, I'm not trying to be a Richard or a total buzzkill, but people need to be realistic.

1. Yes, Fowler is better than Ebukam and it eludes to the point you made in the bottom of your post. Dante Fowler has been passed on the depth chart and has had far less rushing opportunities. Samson Ebukam started since week 1 and in 8 games has had 2 sacks 13 tckles and 2FF. Fowler, in far less opportunities as you mentioned, has 2 sacks 7tckles 1 FF in 7 games. So objectively,  Fowler becomes the best EDGE rusher we have on the team. Yes, really.

2. Okay. He's a FA. Thank you for pointing out we do not have the option to exercise his 5th year. If he walks, we get a comp pick in return. Maybe a 4th or 5th.

3. We gave up a 3rd this year and a 5th in 2020. We should have 3 3rd's this year and could get back that 5th in 2 years via Compensatory. So we traded a pick we presumably will have an abundance of for a player who is easily more talented than any 3rd round pick coming out next year.

4. If he does work out, we found Wade another Von Miller piece for his defense and we give the money we should of given to Marcus Peters cause he's $hitting the bed outside of week 1 and we draft CB's.

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4 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

1. Yes, Fowler is better than Ebukam and it eludes to the point you made in the bottom of your post. Dante Fowler has been passed on the depth chart and has had far less rushing opportunities. Samson Ebukam started since week 1 and in 8 games has had 2 sacks 13 tckles and 2FF. Fowler, in far less opportunities as you mentioned, has 2 sacks 7tckles 1 FF in 7 games. So objectively,  Fowler becomes the best EDGE rusher we have on the team. Yes, really.

2. Okay. He's a FA. Thank you for pointing out we do not have the option to exercise his 5th year. If he walks, we get a comp pick in return. Maybe a 4th or 5th.

3. We gave up a 3rd this year and a 5th in 2020. We should have 3 3rd's this year and could get back that 5th in 2 years via Compensatory. So we traded a pick we presumably will have an abundance of for a player who is easily more talented than any 3rd round pick coming out next year.

4. If he does work out, we found Wade another Von Miller piece for his defense and we give the money we should of given to Marcus Peters cause he's $hitting the bed outside of week 1 and we draft CB's.

Why is it that people refuse to be realistic and have to jump straight to hyperbole?

Wash the words Von Miller out of your statements with regard to Fowler.  They were never  - not even before his (Fowler's knee injury) comparable prospects to anything more than those giving the most superficial of looks.  Fowler had/has (as a prospect and a current player) more in common with Shane Ray than Von Miller.

And part and parcel to "being a better pass rusher" means actually effectively rushing the passer, you know, doing things like beating blockers consistently (pressures, not just sacks; actually affecting plays).  Fowler has the most potential.  Of yet, you simply CANNOT say he is the best EDGE on this team with any actual evidence.  The manner in which you're trying to go about it is ignoring context. And stats without context are literally just numbers.

Look, I understand wanting to be optimistic, but that doesn't mean jumping to the other pole either and completely detaching with reality.  You're only setting yourself up for heartbreak and disappointment (and, with the way things tend to go on FF, more hyperbolic assessment/criticism/over-selling of need in the near-future).  I mean, just look how quickly some of you (and you in particular) have flipped on Peters from the time the trade was made.  Now, all of a sudden, he's been trash since Day 1, blah, blah blah... all that tells me is that - once again, people bit hard on what they read on the internet and never actually watched the player play before anointing him the new messiah.

It's OK to temper expectations.  It's OK for a player to be fallible or to be beaten.  Even the guys who were media darlings for being studs at their positions (and who enjoyed the benefits of favorable officiating because of those reputations) like - just as a CB example, and they're wholly different types of CB than Peters has ever been in his career - Sherman, Scrabble, and Revis got beaten; it was just downplayed.

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I think my expectation (and tempered excitement) with this move is that Wade will be able to deploy him in the most advantageous situations to best utilize his skill set in his scheme. Not that Fowler is suddenly some every down all star, but a very specific weapon that can be a boon to our pass rushing downs. 

And if those specific plays, especially in a playoff run, result in a Super Bowl berth/possible win, then he is plenty worth the 96th pick in the draft. If we fall short of that, then we can have  discussion of why, and if this was a waste of a trade

Edited by StLunatic88

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19 hours ago, The LBC said:

Why is it that people refuse to be realistic and have to jump straight to hyperbole?

Wash the words Von Miller out of your statements with regard to Fowler.  They were never  - not even before his (Fowler's knee injury) comparable prospects to anything more than those giving the most superficial of looks.  Fowler had/has (as a prospect and a current player) more in common with Shane Ray than Von Miller.

And part and parcel to "being a better pass rusher" means actually effectively rushing the passer, you know, doing things like beating blockers consistently (pressures, not just sacks; actually affecting plays).  Fowler has the most potential.  Of yet, you simply CANNOT say he is the best EDGE on this team with any actual evidence.  The manner in which you're trying to go about it is ignoring context. And stats without context are literally just numbers.

Look, I understand wanting to be optimistic, but that doesn't mean jumping to the other pole either and completely detaching with reality.  You're only setting yourself up for heartbreak and disappointment (and, with the way things tend to go on FF, more hyperbolic assessment/criticism/over-selling of need in the near-future).  I mean, just look how quickly some of you (and you in particular) have flipped on Peters from the time the trade was made.  Now, all of a sudden, he's been trash since Day 1, blah, blah blah... all that tells me is that - once again, people bit hard on what they read on the internet and never actually watched the player play before anointing him the new messiah.

It's OK to temper expectations.  It's OK for a player to be fallible or to be beaten.  Even the guys who were media darlings for being studs at their positions (and who enjoyed the benefits of favorable officiating because of those reputations) like - just as a CB example, and they're wholly different types of CB than Peters has ever been in his career - Sherman, Scrabble, and Revis got beaten; it was just downplayed.

It's 2018 and everyone is speaking in hyperbole. We immediately go to the top shelf with our words; check any sports show these days. It's always who's the GOAT? was the performance the greatest ever?  etc. It is the nature of how sports are discussed lately. Comparing a top 5 pick at OLB with freak athleticism in Wade's system to a previous top 5 pick at OLB that played in Wade's system is not inappropriate and I am not suggesting Fowler will ever reach that level of success in the NFL, but he can be that piece on our team in Wade's defense. So ease up with the speeches.

My evidence that he is automatically the best on this team is that he has the same stat line as our best starting OLB with 1 less game and far less pass rushing opportunities. If you choose to dismiss that, that's on you if choose to detach from reality. 

And yes, I am slowly, week by week, flipping on Peters; but that is a direct result of watching him week after week getting burned and biting on routes. He played very well week 1 along side Talib and afterwards has been almost a liability. Tempering expectations is fine. I don't think Fowler is coming in and finishing the season with 10 sacks as a Ram. You conveniently left out the stat line I projected over the remaining 8 games, which is pretty realistic and if happens, would be a win for us in this trade. Projection for the last 8 games: 5 sacks, 4 TFL, 1FF

While I may be on the "otherside of the pole and detaching with reality", I think you're on jaded side. Why get hyped for a game changing trade when we've been burned in the past? When rarely do mid-season trades have a major impact on teams? When this particular player has had off the field concerns? I get it. Don't want your heart broken and as Rams fans we've had more than our fare share. But I'm all in. This was a good trade with the potential to be GREAT over a long period of time. And if it's not, we have the chance to cut our losses and recoup some of the pieces we gave up to acquire Fowler. If that's not worth getting hype over at a position of need on Super Bowl team then I don't think much gets you hype in general.

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Being realistic and noting that others should be realistic is apparently "jaded" now?  xD

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That Buffalo wouldn't take what we ended up paying for Fowler in exchange for Hughes is just plain dumb on their part.  Do they have an ultra-talented defense?  Absolutely.  If they don't get their offense up to a 20 PPG consistent force in this league (and in that division as long as Brady and Belichick are there), it's going to matter about as much as when the Jets had a great defense and serviceable running game and massive inconsistency at QB.  Moreover, at this point Allen probably has more job-security than McDermott (even with McDermott having gotten a playoff berth - the FO then turned around and chucked most of the offense that achieved that to the wolves), so if the bug gets up management's butt that a hot name offensive head coach could be the trick to making good on Allen, they well could pull the trigger.

Meanwhile, Hughes is 30.  Has only one year remaining on his contract after this one.  And they've recently invested solidly high picks in other DL (Lawson, both Phillipses) as well as $7m/yr in a free agent contract to Trent Murphy.

Clowney I get Houston shining us on - Jacksonville's been fading lately, Indy's been doing well playing a last-place schedule but they're far from a sure-thing for the division; the Texans were clearly buyers, not sellers in the market.

I just... like I said, for what we ended up getting in Fowler (yes, factoring in his athletic ceiling, his character issues - which are significant, and his general liability in the run-game) I just don't see where we couldn't have stepped out on the FA market and offered Chris McCain the league minimum and a roster spot and gotten the same end-result, so long as McCain's ankle checked out.

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