stl4life07 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I love this get for the Rams. I don’t get why people still are getting hung up on the draft picks. Like the Rams are trying to win the Superbowl. They already built their team through the draft the second McVay got here in 2012 and they have shown they can find talent everywhere in the draft so what’s the big deal of giving up a 2019 3rd and 2020 5th? Also I liked Fowler Jr. coming out. His talent is to rush the passer and if anyone can get him to play his absolute best it’s Wade and to play with Donald and Suh up front. To add to that, the Rams offense is much better than the Jags so Fowler Jr. is going to live in rushing the passer situations when teams have to throw a lot and abandon the run. He couldn’t do that in Jacksonville because his offense alone kept the other team in games. The Rams defense got even better today by adding a nightmare off the edge who will be singled blocked all the time. I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I'm not saying that people can't be optimistic in this, but the level to which I'm seeing some people get is, honestly, getting way overboard. I keep getting these people making the "he's still only 24," "better coaching can make a difference," "he was comp'd (by Lance Zierlein) to Khalil Mack coming out," etc. Jacksonville, correct me if I'm wrong, had one of the best defenses this league has seen in a good while last season, correct? You don't get that way with shabby coaching, so my willingness to pin Fowler's lack of development on lackluster coaching is considerably low. Too many people seem to be pinning this on being a very rare "Jerry Hughes" type situation and not recognizing how low-probability those instances actually occur. I literally had someone on Twitter outright insisting that there's still a high potential for Fowler to be "elite." (He legitimately tried to bring Kevin Greene into the conversation of how a player who massively underachieved in his first four seasons would still be elite... Kevin 'freakin' Greene") This just seems to me like a situation where we would have done well from hitting a solid double and instead we went full-on Dave Robertson telling the Dodgers to swing-away for the fences. It just feels like people are trying to paint this as a move akin to the Pats going out and spending a 5th to bring in a clear complementary piece in a Shea McClellin or Kyle Van Noy who they clearly accept didn't live up to the hype, but has the intangibles to be the roleplayer they need him to be and who can provide a couple big moments when called upon. Whereas instead we're spending at a higher premium (and putting the flexibility to actually move to acquire a move long-term solution at the position - which is going to have to be rookie-contract inexpensive in order for us to afford them on the same ledger as Donald, Gurley, and Goff's eventual/pending extension - in greater flux) for a player that is little more (if that) than one of those types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris00cm Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Love the idea. Hate the player. Hope I'm wrong about this one. I'd be much more comfortable if the aforementioned Jerry Hughes was coming this way instead... What are the Bills thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riftty Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Are we gonna see this guy in the saints game? Little outside pass rush could help us in this game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, chris00cm said: Love the idea. Hate the player. Hope I'm wrong about this one. I'd be much more comfortable if the aforementioned Jerry Hughes was coming this way instead... What are the Bills thinking? This is the more concise way of summing up my feelings. After seeing that the main compensation is a 3rd comp pick, I'm a bit more amenable on value - if going all the way to factor in the context of the number of comp picks we're likely to have (I still think the value paid relative to the player received is poor). But I just plain don't like the player; Fowler's been more hype than substance and is another one of those "stud in shorts, but it rarely actually translates to the field" types that are indicative of why 40-some percent of 1st round draft picks ultimately get the bust label. I think everyone was hung up on us needing to go out and get "another stud" to the point where the allure of "stud upside" (no matter how likely that was actually to ever be remotely realized or scratched) was the shinier object that distracted us away from where would would have benefited from solid, veteran stopgap who could have brought more stability than flash. I'd have sooner sent a Day 3 pick to the Giants to rent Barwin back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Riftty said: Are we gonna see this guy in the saints game? Little outside pass rush could help us in this game... Maybe on some clearly obvious passing situations (3rd and long) where they can just tell him to pin his ears back and heat-seek, but I honestly doubt he sees significant snaps until after the KC game at the earliest (probably see him get a "trial-and-tweak" run out there given we have the bye week following it where they can work to correct and will then have tape to refer to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 It gets better. The guy who was trying to own me by bringing up Zierlein's comp - I actually got Lance involved in the conversation and he even clarified that he wouldn't expect Fowler to hit anything near elite. "Can still be good for Wade," and I'd agree, he certainly can; I don't think that's high probability, but I'm not going to dismiss that he can. Ultimately, I think we're going to be sitting here hoping he ends up a Chris Clemons type - which will still be someone that we'll likely quibble in the future about how much money he's really worth to retain and whether or not he's really not someone we could/should be trying to upgrade from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 The Rams got what they wanted from a pass rushing off the edge. Did you know that Fowler Jr. ranks 13th amongst DE/OLB in PRWR (Pass Rush Win Rate) and he only had 105 pass rushes this season? Like he is going to dominate being the full time starter in a Wade Phillips defense. I dont see why anyone hate this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 46 minutes ago, stl4life07 said: The Rams got what they wanted from a pass rushing off the edge. Did you know that Fowler Jr. ranks 13th amongst DE/OLB in PRWR (Pass Rush Win Rate) and he only had 105 pass rushes this season? Like he is going to dominate being the full time starter in a Wade Phillips defense. I dont see why anyone hate this move. Statistics without context mean diddly. And I genuinely don't get how you feel like you can justify the bolded in the slightest. There's very, very little to actually support that other than blind faith and rose-colored glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 58 minutes ago, The LBC said: It gets better. The guy who was trying to own me by bringing up Zierlein's comp - I actually got Lance involved in the conversation and he even clarified that he wouldn't expect Fowler to hit anything near elite. "Can still be good for Wade," and I'd agree, he certainly can; I don't think that's high probability, but I'm not going to dismiss that he can. Ultimately, I think we're going to be sitting here hoping he ends up a Chris Clemons type - which will still be someone that we'll likely quibble in the future about how much money he's really worth to retain and whether or not he's really not someone we could/should be trying to upgrade from. If we get a Chris Clemons or Mario Addison type, we're doing well for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 minute ago, The LBC said: Statistics without context mean diddly. And I genuinely don't get how you feel like you can justify the bolded in the slightest. There's very, very little to actually support that other than blind faith and rose-colored glasses. You didnt bold that part where I said he was 13th amongst DE/OLB in PRWR and he barely played snaps in Jacksonville this season. That means only 12 DE/OLB was better than him pressuring the QB consistently. Im sure those 12 DE/OLB all had more opportunities than him. So when I say that when he gets full-time worth of opportunities, if he continues to pressure the QB at a consistent rate like he was doing when he got his opportunity to in Jacksonville now in Wade Phillips scheme and playing behind Donald like I feel he is going to dominate. Like thats me projecting forward instead of actually waiting then being like "oh yeah I expected that". I didnt say it here but I said before the season started when the Rams traded away Tree. I said that Wade is going to find a linebacker to be effective who might not be a household name like Tree was. The person I was talking to told me no way that was going to happen. Well that guy is Littleton. He isnt a household name but he is effective just like predicted. It wasnt hard to predict because Wade has a history of that. So just because Im saying something now and it hasnt happened yet doesnt make me have blind faith. I gave you my reason for why I think now with an increased role Fowler Jr. has a chance to dominate because in a small sample in Jacksonville this season only 12 DE/OLB was better than him in PRWR and those 12 Im sure played alot more than he did. Its a projection moving forward and not blind faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, jrry32 said: If we get a Chris Clemons or Mario Addison type, we're doing well for ourselves. I agree. My problem is I think that's the ceiling we're getting with Fowler and, as we've seen, realism suggests that we should likely be expecting something less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, stl4life07 said: You didnt bold that part where I said he was 13th amongst DE/OLB in PRWR and he barely played snaps in Jacksonville this season. That means only 12 DE/OLB was better than him pressuring the QB consistently. Im sure those 12 DE/OLB all had more opportunities than him. So when I say that when he gets full-time worth of opportunities, if he continues to pressure the QB at a consistent rate like he was doing when he got his opportunity to in Jacksonville now in Wade Phillips scheme and playing behind Donald like I feel he is going to dominate. Like thats me projecting forward instead of actually waiting then being like "oh yeah I expected that". I didnt say it here but I said before the season started when the Rams traded away Tree. I said that Wade is going to find a linebacker to be effective who might not be a household name like Tree was. The person I was talking to told me no way that was going to happen. Well that guy is Littleton. He isnt a household name but he is effective just like predicted. It wasnt hard to predict because Wade has a history of that. So just because Im saying something now and it hasnt happened yet doesnt make me have blind faith. I gave you my reason for why I think now with an increased role Fowler Jr. has a chance to dominate because in a small sample in Jacksonville this season only 12 DE/OLB was better than him in PRWR and those 12 Im sure played alot more than he did. Its a projection moving forward and not blind faith. I didn't bold it because the sample size is so small it makes the statistic largely irrelevant. A small sample-size allows for a single success or two to register massively; that doesn't make them anywhere close to an accurate representation of the truth. That's kind of how statistics and probability work. It's simple math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, The LBC said: I agree. My problem is I think that's the ceiling we're getting with Fowler and, as we've seen, realism suggests that we should likely be expecting something less than that. I don't think that's the ceiling. Maybe the realistic expectation is he improves while here, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, The LBC said: I didn't bold it because the sample size is so small it makes the statistic largely irrelevant. A small sample-size allows for a single success or two to register massively; that doesn't make them anywhere close to an accurate representation of the truth. That's kind of how statistics and probability work. It's simple math. Yeah but he cant help that. He wasnt on the field much but he capitalized when he had to chance. I understand he isnt Mack. Maybe if he was Mack everyone would be more hyped and not trying to poke holes. Fowler is talented and for what the Rams want to do, he has the talent to do it and be very good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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