Browns also fire OC Todd Haley

[lancerman]

3 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

mfw a Patriots fan is ranting at a Browns fan as if he wants the Browns to be good more than the Browns fan

I'm used to getting what I want. This is infuriating. Just be good

[43M]

10 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think Haley should catch on again, at least as an OC. He would be hired tomorrow if he wasn't such a horse's caboose. Maybe teams won't think it's worth it? He really is a jerk, but he designs cool plays and, IMO, really helped develop Ben. His playcalling and being a total anus will always hold him back.

Haley didnt really develop Ben at all.    Him and Ben butted heads most of the time.   You could argue that he made Ben get rid of the ball quicker which helped reduce sacks, but I think Munchack drastically improving our OLine had just as much to do with it.

Ben was a good fit for Haley's offense.    Haley's scheme is actually pretty effective.   Its his horrid playcalling that dragged him down, as you noted.

Bottom line....Haley's offense would be fine if someone smarter were calling the plays.

[buno67]

20 hours ago, lancerman said:

Why? The real reason everyone thinks Hue’s the problem is because they’ve been losing a lot. Newsflash they always lose a lot. Hue just happened to be the coach during a complete rebuild phase. 

And hell Haley only improved the team.

Now they just got all these new pieces.... and are going to bring in new management that didn’t have a plan for these guys and will want their own guys. 

The next coach might think Baker wasn’t a good pick, doesn’t have the skills, and will want to draft his own guy.

The owner is the problem. He’s always been the problem. He is a complete failure at pro sports. 

Everything every Browns said they were building the last several years went out the window 

Like @Bonanza23 said. wrong!!!

to say Hue wasn’t the problem but it’s the organization is completely wrong. 

Hue ran his mouth so much and never could back up the check his arse was writing. 

Yeah the browns team was in a complete rebuild but had enough talent over the past two years to win more than 1 freaking game. 

 No one was expecting Hue to come into team and win 7-8 games. They just expected anything better than what his results were. When you lose as many close games as he did, that’s on coaching not players.

Hue never added any value to the team. He didn’t properly build scheme around his talent. He didn’t properly manage games, he didn’t properly manage the clock, he took ZERO accountability. 

Dorsey will make sure the new coach likes Baker. No way dorsey hires a HC that doesn’t like Baker. 

Again you won’t blame Hue but youll blame Haslam. Hue’s excuse should work for Haslam as well. Haslam took over a bad organization. I think it might work out now tho. They finally got a legit FO in place and the FO gets to pick their HC. Seems like every year since Haslam was here that both the FO and coaches were never on the same page. Haslam takes over and gets stuck with Lombardi and Bannet and they kept shurmur, they fire shurmur and get a new coach than the FO gets fired and the new FO can’t pick there guy. It’s was a weird back and FO. Now Haslam has identified a great Football guy and Dorsey has built a darn good FO and now has everything in place to go out and get a HC

[lancerman]

7 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Like @Bonanza23 said. wrong!!!

to say Hue wasn’t the problem but it’s the organization is completely wrong. 

Hue ran his mouth so much and never could back up the check his arse was writing. 

Yeah the browns team was in a complete rebuild but had enough talent over the past two years to win more than 1 freaking game. 

 No one was expecting Hue to come into team and win 7-8 games. They just expected anything better than what his results were. When you lose as many close games as he did, that’s on coaching not players.

Hue never added any value to the team. He didn’t properly build scheme around his talent. He didn’t properly manage games, he didn’t properly manage the clock, he took ZERO accountability. 

Dorsey will make sure the new coach likes Baker. No way dorsey hires a HC that doesn’t like Baker. 

Again you won’t blame Hue but youll blame Haslam. Hue’s excuse should work for Haslam as well. Haslam took over a bad organization. I think it might work out now tho. They finally got a legit FO in place and the FO gets to pick their HC. Seems like every year since Haslam was here that both the FO and coaches were never on the same page. Haslam takes over and gets stuck with Lombardi and Bannet and they kept shurmur, they fire shurmur and get a new coach than the FO gets fired and the new FO can’t pick there guy. It’s was a weird back and FO. Now Haslam has identified a great Football guy and Dorsey has built a darn good FO and now has everything in place to go out and get a HC

Yeah. I’ll blame the owner of a franchise that had one playoff appearance in the past 20 years that habitually comes in last in the division at an over 75% rate, who EVERY COACH under him has failed under  

[buno67]

13 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Yeah. I’ll blame the owner of a franchise that had one playoff appearance in the past 20 years that habitually comes in last in the division at an over 75% rate, who EVERY COACH under him has failed under  

You need to get your facts straight buddy boy. 

You wont blame Hue because of the franchises history but you’ll use the history of the franchise against the owner. 

Haslam hasn’t owned the team the past 20years. He is technically the 3rd owner since the return. Lerner Sr, Lerner Jr, and Now Haslam

[lancerman]

25 minutes ago, buno67 said:

You need to get your facts straight buddy boy. 

You wont blame Hue because of the franchises history but you’ll use the history of the franchise against the owner. 

Haslam hasn’t owned the team the past 20years. He is technically the 3rd owner since the return. Lerner Sr, Lerner Jr, and Now Haslam

I know and Haslam also has a history of being terrible with other franchises. 

Here’s just the cold hard truth. The Browns were the dirt worst franchise in the past 20 years even if you remove the Hue Jackson era. Every coach they’ve had left with a losing win percentage. They’ve never developed a QB. 

Firing Hue Jackson isn’t the silver bullet, and honestly I get that he sucks but you just spent 3 years building this team under THAT managements vision..... and everyone involved in it is gone. Your next coach might not want or like all those players and try to rebuild, he might be more comfortable with different schemes, he might not buy into Baker. You just completely disrupted a newly formed teams continuity 

[buno67]

1 minute ago, lancerman said:

I know and Haslam also has a history of being terrible with other franchises. 

Here’s just the cold hard truth. The Browns were the dirt worst franchise in the past 20 years even if you remove the Hue Jackson era. Every coach they’ve had left with a losing win percentage. They’ve never developed a QB. 

Firing Hue Jackson isn’t the silver bullet, and honestly I get that he sucks but you just spent 3 years building this team under THAT managements vision..... and everyone involved in it is gone. Your next coach might not want or like all those players and try to rebuild, he might be more comfortable with different schemes, he might not buy into Baker. You just completely disrupted a newly formed teams continuity 

Haslam has been terrible with other franchises? He has only been a part of two sport franchises, Steelers and Browns. Steelers have prolly been the 2nd best franchise over the past 20years.

Spent three years building under Hue? Wrong! Dorsey came and flipped 60% of the roster. Count inseason moves its prolly up to 65%/70% of the roster now.  So what Hue has done or hasnt done doesn’t mean squat  

“completely disrupted a newly formed teams continuity“ what Continuity? having a loser of a coach? One who has no idea how to run a team. When you break up being garbage, its what you want  

You say the next coach might not like this or like that. If that’s the case that coach won’t be hired. The next guy hired will have to show what he can do to build baker and keeping him growing. Reason Hue and Haley we’re both fired because they weren’t making things easier for Baker but actually harder. Dorsey isn’t going to hire a coach who wants to change things. The new HC what have the power over a roster or personnel. 

Also, quit saying the past 3 years. “you just spent 3 years building this team under THAT managements vision..... and everyone involved in it is gone”  this is year one under Dorsey and he has done more in under a year than what was done the previous two years. Under Dorsey, the ppl that showed they are not worth keeping are gone. Hue was hot garbage haley was a major major a-hole. Dorsey is ready for step 2 in his vision and that’s hiring a brand new coaching staff. 

Can you please name the positives Hue Jackson has done the past 40 games because you are talking like you are a complete outsider and have no idea what was going on. Hue has shown zero reasons he deserves to be kept  The Browns have been bad for 20years, so let’s keep the coach that after 40 games has a .075 win percentage  

So firing Hue is  silver bullet. It now allows Dorsey to hire his own HC. It allows Dorsey Highsmith and Wolfe a Chance to hire the HC. Those are 3 front office members that are highly regarded and respected. I’m the past 20years the Browns haven’t had a front office like this. So they bring hope. Firing Hue was the last nail in the coffin that was the past and with the talent in the FO that things will turn over. 

[lancerman]

9 minutes ago, buno67 said:

Haslam has been terrible with other franchises? He has only been a part of two sport franchises, Steelers and Browns. Steelers have prolly been the 2nd best franchise over the past 20years.

Spent three years building under Hue? Wrong! Dorsey came and flipped 60% of the roster. Count inseason moves its prolly up to 65%/70% of the roster now.  So what Hue has done or hasnt done doesn’t mean squat  

“completely disrupted a newly formed teams continuity“ what Continuity? having a loser of a coach? One who has no idea how to run a team. When you break up being garbage, its what you want  

You say the next coach might not like this or like that. If that’s the case that coach won’t be hired. The next guy hired will have to show what he can do to build baker and keeping him growing. Reason Hue and Haley we’re both fired because they weren’t making things easier for Baker but actually harder. Dorsey isn’t going to hire a coach who wants to change things. The new HC what have the power over a roster or personnel. 

Also, quit saying the past 3 years. “you just spent 3 years building this team under THAT managements vision..... and everyone involved in it is gone”  this is year one under Dorsey and he has done more in under a year than what was done the previous two years. Under Dorsey, the ppl that showed they are not worth keeping are gone. Hue was hot garbage haley was a major major a-hole. Dorsey is ready for step 2 in his vision and that’s hiring a brand new coaching staff. 

Can you please name the positives Hue Jackson has done the past 40 games because you are talking like you are a complete outsider and have no idea what was going on. Hue has shown zero reasons he deserves to be kept  The Browns have been bad for 20years, so let’s keep the coach that after 40 games has a .075 win percentage  

So firing Hue is  silver bullet. It now allows Dorsey to hire his own HC. It allows Dorsey Highsmith and Wolfe a Chance to hire the HC. Those are 3 front office members that are highly regarded and respected. I’m the past 20years the Browns haven’t had a front office like this. So they bring hope. Firing Hue was the last nail in the coffin that was the past and with the talent in the FO that things will turn over. 

So you’ll avoid looking at all the best coaches on the market because they won’t want to be hand tied to your scheme and your players? Cause I can tell you right now they aren’t going to want to be tied to all the pieces of the Sashi/Hue/Dorsey experiment. Not going to be an attractive location. Also any good will of the long Hue contract and commitment to a longterm coach went out the window 

[buno67]

52 minutes ago, lancerman said:

So you’ll avoid looking at all the best coaches on the market because they won’t want to be hand tied to your scheme and your players? Cause I can tell you right now they aren’t going to want to be tied to all the pieces of the Sashi/Hue/Dorsey experiment. Not going to be an attractive location. Also any good will of the long Hue contract and commitment to a longterm coach went out the window 

What did Hue do that deserves him to have kept his Job?

also what is this Sashi Hue Dorsey experiment? 

Also what Coach is going to hate having a young talented QB, one of the best young DEs, one of the best young DTs, one of the best young DBs, and a top10 pick? Oh yeah $50m in cap space and a competent FO with Dorsey Highsmith and Wolfe. 

Dont forget, it wasn’t Dorseys idea to keep Hue that was Haslam. Dorsey knew he was going to fire Hue this season unless Hue some how pulled a rabbit out of his arse. 

[lancerman]

51 minutes ago, buno67 said:

What did Hue do that deserves him to have kept his Job?

also what is this Sashi Hue Dorsey experiment? 

Also what Coach is going to hate having a young talented QB, one of the best young DEs, one of the best young DTs, one of the best young DBs, and a top10 pick? Oh yeah $50m in cap space and a competent FO with Dorsey Highsmith and Wolfe. 

Dont forget, it wasn’t Dorseys idea to keep Hue that was Haslam. Dorsey knew he was going to fire Hue this season unless Hue some how pulled a rabbit out of his arse. 

1. Nothing. The team however was not good enough to objectively evaluate any coach. That’s a 5 win team if you give them the absolute best coach in the league and they get lucky 

2. This rebuild that’s been going on in the Hue Jackson era with the hundred draft picks they collected

3. A) he’s an unproven QB with a sub 60 completion percentage, a sub 80 passer rating, and two more TD’s than INT. Let’s not go into hyperbole. 

B) lots of coaches would much rather get their own guy than pin their hopes on someone else’s project

C) the coaches on the market will have their own schemes they are comfortable with and it might not be best for those guys. This happens. 

D) your front office hasn’t proven anything. Dorsey hasn’t proven anything. The last two drafts your team was set up in a position where they couldn’t lose and they are still a mediocre team that the smart money says will come in dead last in the division. This is you propping up your team to a level nobody outside your fandom views them. You have a team that hasn’t been successful for years, an owner who goes through coaches like I go through underwear, have invested heavily in a QB that looks at best to be a 50-50 toss up. Literally every other opening doesn’t have your track record if treating coaches like crap, will give the new coaches the autonomy to get his own guys in and draft whoever he wants, and won’t be in what has been in a hopeless situation with terrible ownership. It’s not an attractive location. Hue Jackson was one of the most highly touted Browns coaches in years and even if he was terrible everyone realizes your owner made a big deal commitment to a longterm build on a team that was in the gutter and that he couldn’t go more than two years without blowing it up. The Broncos will likely need a new coach, that’s a more attractive spot just right there

[buno67]

59 minutes ago, lancerman said:

1. Nothing. The team however was not good enough to objectively evaluate any coach. That’s a 5 win team if you give them the absolute best coach in the league and they get lucky 

2. This rebuild that’s been going on in the Hue Jackson era with the hundred draft picks they collected

3. A) he’s an unproven QB with a sub 60 completion percentage, a sub 80 passer rating, and two more TD’s than INT. Let’s not go into hyperbole. 

B) lots of coaches would much rather get their own guy than pin their hopes on someone else’s project

C) the coaches on the market will have their own schemes they are comfortable with and it might not be best for those guys. This happens. 

D) your front office hasn’t proven anything. Dorsey hasn’t proven anything. The last two drafts your team was set up in a position where they couldn’t lose and they are still a mediocre team that the smart money says will come in dead last in the division. This is you propping up your team to a level nobody outside your fandom views them. You have a team that hasn’t been successful for years, an owner who goes through coaches like I go through underwear, have invested heavily in a QB that looks at best to be a 50-50 toss up. Literally every other opening doesn’t have your track record if treating coaches like crap, will give the new coaches the autonomy to get his own guys in and draft whoever he wants, and won’t be in what has been in a hopeless situation with terrible ownership. It’s not an attractive location. Hue Jackson was one of the most highly touted Browns coaches in years and even if he was terrible everyone realizes your owner made a big deal commitment to a longterm build on a team that was in the gutter and that he couldn’t go more than two years without blowing it up. The Broncos will likely need a new coach, that’s a more attractive spot just right there

That is the biggest crock of bull saying the team wasn’t good enough to properly evaluate any coach. There are plenty of things that he could have shown that isn’t dependent on the talent of the team. Game management and clock management has nothing to do with talent. The same crap he sucked at in year 1 and 2 were the same crap he sucked at in year 3, year 3 was when he had a massive improvement in talent. Dude couldn’t properly create an offensive scheme to save his life. He greatly misused his player. Kizer wasn’t the greatest QB but the concepts and schemes he forced him to use made Kizer even worse. If that’s your thought process because he doesn’t have talent, so he cant be evaluated then you have no idea how to evaluate a coach. Only time talent of the roster plays a role on evaluation of a coach is when the team has talent and still they don’t win. He wasnt fired because of his record he fired cause he was garbage, had zero accountability, and caused drama  

Ah yeah if the stats don’t add up, doesn’t make him a young talented QB. Do we need to recite the list of QBs that had below avg years stat wise as a rookie Or how about we add to the fact that the minute Baker took over his group of WRs have been destroyed by injury. 

If your a good coach you adapt your scheme to your talent. If you don’t, that coach is prolly Hue Jackson. 

Dorsey hasn’t proven anything? Please tell me exactly what great talent Veach has brought in that has made that KC the best team in the league at this moment. Dorsey drafted Mahomes, Hunt, Kelce, Hill, Dee Ford,  Hitchens. Brought in both RT and LT. Just about every aspect of KC was put together by Dorsey but has he done. Hell his short time in Cleveland he has already brought in a promising young QB, RB, Corner, and FS. Now let’s see what he can do in a offseason with a full year under his belt 

Yeah Hue was a highly touted coach but the sucked. Just because You were highly touted doesn’t make you a cant miss. Hue was given a chance to show year 1 and year 2 weren’t his fault and it was Sashi’s plan for a full tear down. Year 3 he showed even with a greatly improved roster that it couldn’t make up for his inability to be a HC. 

You can make up all the excuses in the world why he shouldn’t be fired but you Can’t come up with one legit reason why he should have been kept. Like he ran great offensive schemes, he was great at game planning, and etc. he didn’t even deserve to see year 3 with how awful he was

[lancerman]

38 minutes ago, buno67 said:

That is the biggest crock of bull saying the team wasn’t good enough to properly evaluate any coach. There are plenty of things that he could have shown that isn’t dependent on the talent of the team. Game management and clock management has nothing to do with talent. The same crap he sucked at in year 1 and 2 were the same crap he sucked at in year 3, year 3 was when he had a massive improvement in talent. Dude couldn’t properly create an offensive scheme to save his life. He greatly misused his player. Kizer wasn’t the greatest QB but the concepts and schemes he forced him to use made Kizer even worse. If that’s your thought process because he doesn’t have talent, so he cant be evaluated then you have no idea how to evaluate a coach. Only time talent of the roster plays a role on evaluation of a coach is when the team has talent and still they don’t win. He wasnt fired because of his record he fired cause he was garbage, had zero accountability, and caused drama  

Ah yeah if the stats don’t add up, doesn’t make him a young talented QB. Do we need to recite the list of QBs that had below avg years stat wise as a rookie Or how about we add to the fact that the minute Baker took over his group of WRs have been destroyed by injury. 

If your a good coach you adapt your scheme to your talent. If you don’t, that coach is prolly Hue Jackson. 

Dorsey hasn’t proven anything? Please tell me exactly what great talent Veach has brought in that has made that KC the best team in the league at this moment. Dorsey drafted Mahomes, Hunt, Kelce, Hill, Dee Ford,  Hitchens. Brought in both RT and LT. Just about every aspect of KC was put together by Dorsey but has he done. Hell his short time in Cleveland he has already brought in a promising young QB, RB, Corner, and FS. Now let’s see what he can do in a offseason with a full year under his belt 

Yeah Hue was a highly touted coach but the sucked. Just because You were highly touted doesn’t make you a cant miss. Hue was given a chance to show year 1 and year 2 weren’t his fault and it was Sashi’s plan for a full tear down. Year 3 he showed even with a greatly improved roster that it couldn’t make up for his inability to be a HC. 

You can make up all the excuses in the world why he shouldn’t be fired but you Can’t come up with one legit reason why he should have been kept. Like he ran great offensive schemes, he was great at game planning, and etc. he didn’t even deserve to see year 3 with how awful he was

Okay when the Browns are still bad next year and the year after and three coaches from now we can revisit this. I’m sure you’ll have a new excuse 

[buno67]

8 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Okay when the Browns are still bad next year and the year after and three coaches from now we can revisit this. I’m sure you’ll have a new excuse 

    Quit deflecting, what has he done that deserved him to keep his job? Please point to a strength of his over the past 40 games that he is coach Dan that should’ve protected his job? The guy has Done nothing that warrant   Him job security. 

What excuses am I making? I’ve said hue Is garbage. You’re the one who’s making every excuse possible for Hue

 I also throughout legit reasons why there’s hope with Dorsey. You have not thrown out any legit Hue Should’ve been kept

[BayRaider]

Nobody should be making excuses for Hue. The guy has proven twice now he isn’t Head Coach material. And I could of told the Browns he is a slimey scumbag who will throw anyone under the bus and more passive aggressive than a female. He’s the prime example of a terrific offensive coordinator and god awful Head Coach with zero leadership skills.

[MistaBohmbastic]

@lancerman The Buffalo Bills gave away almost all of their most valuable assets going into this season, and decided to enter game 1 with Nathan Peterman and Josh Allen as their quarterbacks. They've already won two games this season. 

Meanwhile, the Browns have the highest turnover differential in football, and are the only team in football to have such a high differential while maintaining a sub-.500 record. They've won the same amount of games as the Bills with a superior roster.

If you checked the Browns forum, you'd see me calling out people who liked to blame everything on Hue, even when he didn't deserve it.

With that being said, I don't know how anyone could honestly say none of this mess is on him. There's more than enough evidence to PROVE that he's been holding this team back.

While you are essentially saying everyone is blaming Hue for so many things that aren't on him, you're simultaneously being an inverse-hypocrite in your backing of him by saying that NONE of this is his fault. You gotta have a mirror in ya crib somewhere homie.

Next question, please.