Browns also fire OC Todd Haley

[buno67]

3 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

how so?

First play of the season. He was more more worried about saiding a big F U to Hue than what was scripted prior. Reports coming out he was refusing to do things like play Duke and Chubb. We can see now not playing Chubb more was really hurtful cause he has been a stud the past two Weeks 

[buno67]

2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Didn't know where else to put this but....what the hell is this?

He has experience working with Kitchens. Prolly wanted another coach on staff. Kitchen prolly wanted someone that was familiar with him. Better to get another coach in there and not just keep the spot open. 

[Kiwibrown]

He ain't guna teach them to play running back, they already can, he is going to run the meetings.

[BrownLeader]

10 hours ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

Really? This was beyond obvious. Never listened to anyone's advice and continued to exemplify that the offense was his way or the highway.

Continuing to keep Nick Chubb off the field until John Dorsey traded Carlos Hyde, STILL not giving Duke Johnson enough opportunities to be the offensive weapon we all know he's capable of, starting Josh Gordon on the FIRST play of the game despite Hue's saying he wasn't starting. 

These are really your examples of him not putting the team first?

[BrownLeader]

7 hours ago, buno67 said:

First play of the season. He was more more worried about saiding a big F U to Hue than what was scripted prior. Reports coming out he was refusing to do things like play Duke and Chubb. We can see now not playing Chubb more was really hurtful cause he has been a stud the past two Weeks 

Not sure pushing back on Hue is a bad thing. And trading Hyde hurts the team. He was reliable and a considerably better runner than Duke. Agreed Chubb needed more carries but I bet it wasn't entirely because Haley didn't want to listen.

And what was the 1st play of the season?

[MistaBohmbastic]

1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

Not sure pushing back on Hue is a bad thing. And trading Hyde hurts the team. He was reliable and a considerably better runner than Duke. Agreed Chubb needed more carries but I bet it wasn't entirely because Haley didn't want to listen.

And what was the 1st play of the season?

So, you're "betting" based on assumptions? Because that's no way to be objective. I don't think you've watched their games close enough, friend. Your mind is already made up so none of this debate matters...but I will just say you sir, are in the minority, and leave it at that.

Josh Gordon was on the field for that first play.

[buno67]

7 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

Not sure pushing back on Hue is a bad thing. And trading Hyde hurts the team. He was reliable and a considerably better runner than Duke. Agreed Chubb needed more carries but I bet it wasn't entirely because Haley didn't want to listen.

And what was the 1st play of the season?

It’s not a bad thing but it’s not a good look. 

Hyde wasn’t a better runner. Hyde was getting 3.4 yards a pop. Both Duke and chubb were well above Hyde. Wasn’t just after a game or two but at least a handful. Haley refused to get those other guy touches. Hell since Hyde has been traded you haven’t seen a drop off in the rushing attack but to me it has been better with chubb carrying the load. It went on for 2 weeks or so they Hue said that Chubb and Duke need more touches and nothing happened in the game plans to reflect that. 

Hue said for like 2 weeks that Gordon won’t start for missing training camp. Haley then starts him leaving Hue to deal with the mess. To me Haley truly F’ed with Hue on that one

[BrownLeader]

10 hours ago, buno67 said:

It’s not a bad thing but it’s not a good look. 

Hyde wasn’t a better runner. Hyde was getting 3.4 yards a pop. Both Duke and chubb were well above Hyde. Wasn’t just after a game or two but at least a handful. Haley refused to get those other guy touches. Hell since Hyde has been traded you haven’t seen a drop off in the rushing attack but to me it has been better with chubb carrying the load. It went on for 2 weeks or so they Hue said that Chubb and Duke need more touches and nothing happened in the game plans to reflect that. 

Hue said for like 2 weeks that Gordon won’t start for missing training camp. Haley then starts him leaving Hue to deal with the mess. To me Haley truly F’ed with Hue on that one

Like I complained when he was resigned, I think Duke is completely overrated. He's not a good runner out of the backfield. At all. He lacks vision, patience, strength and walks off slowly every 3rd touch. He's utilized better as a receiving RB, but even in that role, he's not really special. He's not clutch. I'd rank current similar guys like James White, Theo Riddick, Tariq Cohen, Darren Sproles (when healthy), Chris Thompson, Kamara, McCaffrey all above him. If his lack of touches were due to Haley just not thinking he was all that good...I'm right on board.

Chubb's lack of reps is mystifying. But I'm more inclined to believe it was about Haley not trusting he knew the plays, protections or situations, than sitting him just because Hue or Dorsey wanted him in there. I think Haley himself admitted he needed to get Chubb more carries.

[Kiwibrown]

4 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

 

Chubb's lack of reps is mystifying. But I'm more inclined to believe it was about Haley not trusting he knew the plays, protections or situations, than sitting him just because Hue or Dorsey wanted him in there. I think Haley himself admitted he needed to get Chubb more carries.

cognitive dissonance. 
he didn't know what he was talking about really.  

[MistaBohmbastic]

4 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

Like I complained when he was resigned, I think Duke is completely overrated. He's not a good runner out of the backfield. At all. He lacks vision, patience, strength and walks off slowly every 3rd touch. He's utilized better as a receiving RB, but even in that role, he's not really special. He's not clutch. I'd rank current similar guys like James White, Theo Riddick, Tariq Cohen, Darren Sproles (when healthy), Chris Thompson, Kamara, McCaffrey all above him. If his lack of touches were due to Haley just not thinking he was all that good...I'm right on board.

Chubb's lack of reps is mystifying. But I'm more inclined to believe it was about Haley not trusting he knew the plays, protections or situations, than sitting him just because Hue or Dorsey wanted him in there. I think Haley himself admitted he needed to get Chubb more carries.

I see you trying justify your takes, rather than backing them up with actual evidence. Even if you're right about Duke being as overrated as you make him out to be, the whole franchise knows what he's capable of. As the leading receiver and most dangerous weapon on the '17 Browns, limiting his opportunities was non-sensical, especially considering how badly they've been hurting at the receiver position. Again, you're making an assumption that Haley just thinks he isn't good, when in reality, evidence points more towards Todd just wanting to do his own thing and not catering to the team's strengths.

I think Chubb's lack of playing time was evidenced by his struggles with pass protection, then Hyde began to struggle, and was traded soon after.

You have a right to form your own opinions, obviously, but when you state them as if you believe they're completely factual even if they go against what evidence suggests, you're approaching the line of lunacy my friend.

[lod01]

Great firing. He was just recycled loser. Couldn't even figure out that PITT was bringing the house and how you slow that down is the run and dump offs to the RBs.

[DawgX]

42 minutes ago, lod01 said:

Great firing. He was just recycled loser. Couldn't even figure out that PITT was bringing the house and how you slow that down is the run and dump offs to the RBs.

Especially when you have one of the best RBs in the league when it comes to catching passes out of the backfield.

[BrownLeader]

10 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Especially when you have one of the best RBs in the league when it comes to catching passes out of the backfield.

[Don Roshi]

6 minutes ago, BrownLeader said:

I really don't get your stance on this. Even if I believed the same thing you do about Duke, giving him more touches wouldn't be at the expense of "James White, Theo Riddick, Tariq Cohen, Darren Sproles (when healthy), Chris Thompson, Kamara, McCaffrey all above him." We don't have "James White, Theo Riddick, Tariq Cohen, Darren Sproles (when healthy), Chris Thompson, Kamara, McCaffrey all above him." We have Duke Johnson, and he is by far the best receiving RB we have.

[BrownLeader]

Duke's a decent complimentary player. But his rep is that of a really good player and he's being paid like a star. He's neither. He's amassed a lot of production on a couple of terrible team's as the sole dump off option. He's far from a bad player but he is consistently nicked up and isn't clutch. The team needing to rely on a player of his caliber is part of the reason why the team doesn't win.

Back OT...Haley's got to be listening to Hue's takes on his media tour and thinking...I got fired for this guy?!

It's just such a strange thing to let the OC go at this point. It's still the same offense. It's his guy that he brought up calling the plays. There's no way you can say he's better at it than Todd.  I wonder if he and Dorsey had a major blow up regarding the interim and player reps or whatever?  I'd buy that a whole lot more than the.."he was an awful OC and got mixed up feuding with Hue, so we had to let him go after 8 games" bs.