MrOaktown_56 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 4 hours ago, sammymvpknight said: Jaguars are pretty much demoralized right now...but they are still the best defense. They are often just put in impossible situations by their offense. You get a semi competent QB under center, then all of a sudden this poll becomes much easier. Couldn't have said it much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, ET80 said: I think the bold is where I'm leaning. I mean, can anyone tell me how they calculate DVOA? I don't doubt it's more scientific than something like QBR, but as of now - it's not much different, IMO. Someone has to "show their work" before I take DVOA seriously anymore. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dvoa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 What has been the cause of so much bad defense this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I'm partial to the Ravens, so far. First in yards per play, first in points allowed, second in third down conversion, first in yards per game, most sacks, first in yards per attempt, etc. Closest thing to a shutdown defense we have in this league right now. Incredibly consistent and well-coached from what I've seen. Only thing holding them back from being a truly great defense is that they can't force a turnover to save their lives. One of the worst in the league in turnovers per play. No one in that secondary is really the 6+ INT kinda guy. Kind of the opposite of the Browns, who are probably the best play making defense in the NFL, but they really aren't impressive in terms of just stopping opponents. Even accounting for their offensive woes. Bad in points, yards, mediocre in yards per play, bad in yards per rush, but way up there in turnovers generated. Though honestly, their rate of recovering fumbles on D is probably not sustainable. I want to like the Bears, but I can't erase that Miami game from my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 On 10/30/2018 at 3:23 AM, Jakuvious said: I'm partial to the Ravens, so far. First in yards per play, first in points allowed, second in third down conversion, first in yards per game, most sacks, first in yards per attempt, etc. Closest thing to a shutdown defense we have in this league right now. Incredibly consistent and well-coached from what I've seen. Only thing holding them back from being a truly great defense is that they can't force a turnover to save their lives. One of the worst in the league in turnovers per play. No one in that secondary is really the 6+ INT kinda guy. Kind of the opposite of the Browns, who are probably the best play making defense in the NFL, but they really aren't impressive in terms of just stopping opponents. Even accounting for their offensive woes. Bad in points, yards, mediocre in yards per play, bad in yards per rush, but way up there in turnovers generated. Though honestly, their rate of recovering fumbles on D is probably not sustainable. I want to like the Bears, but I can't erase that Miami game from my memory. A few things: -Yes the turnovers are sustainable as long as the effort is there, pretty much all of those turnovers were conscious efforts to liberate the ball from the call carrier. That is the identity of the defense and chances are it will continue as long as long as that same message is being conveyed. -As far as they yards, of course teams are going to rack up yards if our offense continues to give the ball back to the opposing offense with little to no points to show for it, teams probably triple our offensive possessions, that's kinda elementary, if you have more opportunities to accumulate yards, chances are most teams outside of ours will.Knowing football, these are all products of an anemic offense -And isn't the whole idea of defense to take the ball away from the offense and to give YOUR offense an opportunity to capitalize off of it? Had we been able to score TDs on at least half of those turnovers, we would be at least 6-2 or at least 5-3. Any other team in the NFL that had this opportunistic a defense wouldn't have very many losses if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 On 10/30/2018 at 12:23 AM, Jakuvious said: I'm partial to the Ravens, so far. First in yards per play, first in points allowed, second in third down conversion, first in yards per game, most sacks, first in yards per attempt, etc. Closest thing to a shutdown defense we have in this league right now. Incredibly consistent and well-coached from what I've seen. Only thing holding them back from being a truly great defense is that they can't force a turnover to save their lives. One of the worst in the league in turnovers per play. No one in that secondary is really the 6+ INT kinda guy. Kind of the opposite of the Browns, who are probably the best play making defense in the NFL, but they really aren't impressive in terms of just stopping opponents. Even accounting for their offensive woes. Bad in points, yards, mediocre in yards per play, bad in yards per rush, but way up there in turnovers generated. Though honestly, their rate of recovering fumbles on D is probably not sustainable. I want to like the Bears, but I can't erase that Miami game from my memory. We lost to the Browns, got decimated by the Saints and Panthers. I think Chicago certainly has a better case for #1 than we do at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: We lost to the Browns, got decimated by the Saints and Panthers. I think Chicago certainly has a better case for #1 than we do at this point. The Browns loss wasn't on the defense, and you held the Saints in check far better than almost anyone else has. Only Cleveland allowed fewer points. The Panthers game was a black mark, sure, but I'm less bothered by that than by what Chicago gave up to Osweiler in Miami. You're also just statistically better than Chicago in most regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: A few things: -Yes the turnovers are sustainable as long as the effort is there, pretty much all of those turnovers were conscious efforts to liberate the ball from the call carrier. That is the identity of the defense and chances are it will continue as long as long as that same message is being conveyed. -As far as they yards, of course teams are going to rack up yards if our offense continues to give the ball back to the opposing offense with little to no points to show for it, teams probably triple our offensive possessions, that's kinda elementary, if you have more opportunities to accumulate yards, chances are most teams outside of ours will.Knowing football, these are all products of an anemic offense -And isn't the whole idea of defense to take the ball away from the offense and to give YOUR offense an opportunity to capitalize off of it? Had we been able to score TDs on at least half of those turnovers, we would be at least 6-2 or at least 5-3. Any other team in the NFL that had this opportunistic a defense wouldn't have very many losses if any. 1. Wishful thinking, history tells us this simply isnt the case. although itd be really nice if it all took to get turnovers is effort (and of course talent). 2.CLeveland ranks exactly middle of the pack in yards per play given up. Teams are running the ball on them the 3rd most in the league, and the top is slightly against the browns. This isnt really condusive to your assertion that its solely a volume thing. Nor does it appear its a case that the browns are simply tired from being on the field so much. 3. No factual evidence of this what so ever, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: A few things: -Yes the turnovers are sustainable as long as the effort is there, pretty much all of those turnovers were conscious efforts to liberate the ball from the call carrier. That is the identity of the defense and chances are it will continue as long as long as that same message is being conveyed. -As far as they yards, of course teams are going to rack up yards if our offense continues to give the ball back to the opposing offense with little to no points to show for it, teams probably triple our offensive possessions, that's kinda elementary, if you have more opportunities to accumulate yards, chances are most teams outside of ours will.Knowing football, these are all products of an anemic offense -And isn't the whole idea of defense to take the ball away from the offense and to give YOUR offense an opportunity to capitalize off of it? Had we been able to score TDs on at least half of those turnovers, we would be at least 6-2 or at least 5-3. Any other team in the NFL that had this opportunistic a defense wouldn't have very many losses if any. Hold on now, let's clarify something here because you're misquoting what I said. I said the rate of fumble recovery is not sustainable. Not that turnover production is not sustainable. We've seen teams continue to be great at turnovers year to year. That's sustainable to an extent. Fumble recovery features a lot more luck in terms of just how and where the ball bounces. Cleveland has forced 12 fumbles, they've recovered 10. That's a staggering percentage. You can sustain forcing them, because that's a skill, on defense, but you won't keep recovering 85% of the opposing team's fumbles. They're doing well forcing them, they're also getting lucky (which rarely continues), is all I was saying in that one small side note. Like I said, even factoring in the offense, they're still not great at stopping opposing teams. Does the terrible offense hurt? absolutely. They've had more plays against them than any team in the league. But, their yards per play against is still mediocre. Per play, they're dead average. Per rush, they're pretty bad. And you can't blame the offense for those. And if you want to blame number of opportunities for yards on the offense, the same could be said for many of the things they look good at (sacks, INTs, turnovers as a whole.) Sure, they'd allow fewer passing yards if teams had fewer passing attempts. They'd also have fewer INTs. And fewer TDs allowed. And fewer sacks. So do we just settle on none of the stats mattering and ignore it all? And then of course the week where the offense didn't look anemic was actually when the defense looked worst, so what do we conclude from that? The offense excuse can only do so much. The whole idea of the defense is to stop the offense. Whether that's a takeaway or a punt. Yes. They're elite at the former. Only okay at the latter. Which is fine. Still makes them a good defense. Might still make them top 5 with the state of defense in the current landscape of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: , got decimated by the Saints Nah, I wouldn't say that at all. I could tell we were playing a legit defense watching that game. The Browns played us hard, but we shot ourselves in the foot a lot in that game. We had to fight for every inch against the Ravens. It helped that we got a lot of fourth down conversions and won the TOP battle. That 20 play scoreless drive probably worked in our favor more than anyone though, even though we should have taken the field goal at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagles18 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 On 10/29/2018 at 11:34 AM, Calvert28 said: The Browns are on there but the Cowboys who 2nd ranked in scoring defense just behind the Ravens. 3rd in total defense is not even an option while fielding one of the worst 3out offenses in the nfl is not even an option? DVOA bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Browns or Bears so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I respect DVOA, but I really need an explanation for how the Redskins rank 22nd in run defense. We’ve shut down a lot of top RBs this year, holding many of them to less than 50 yards, and we are top 10 in all the statistical run defense categories, including YPC. I’m baffled. And that run defense DVOA is dragging down our overall DVOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, HTTRG3Dynasty said: I respect DVOA, but I really need an explanation for how the Redskins rank 22nd in run defense. We’ve shut down a lot of top RBs this year, holding many of them to less than 50 yards, and we are top 10 in all the statistical run defense categories, including YPC. I’m baffled. And that run defense DVOA is dragging down our overall DVOA. I had a long explanation typed out about this a few days ago in response to ET and the Titans fan where I was going to explain to them, how and why, their teams' DVOA rankings did not seem to match with what they were seeing. Unfortunately, my PC crashed just as soon as I was almost finished (thank you Win 10). So, naturally, I got discouraged and lost all interest at that point. I'm not going to go into everything in the way that would liek to, but people need to understand four main things about DVOA. 1) Most importantly, please read and TRULY understand about how it works first. It may not be easy to get at first because it may seem like alot to digest all at once but once you start to understand the basic process you realize that it is actually pretty easy to understand. If all else fails, start reading alot of their blogs and posts---you will then start to learn how they use them and it can give you a better idea on how certain aspects and numbers work and how they are used within the system itself. 2) Stop looking at JUST the DVOA rankings and coming to a final conclusion--my pet peeve. It takes more effort than that to truly get it---ESPECIALLY mid-season for team rankings. 3) It's not all about DVOA, it's more about the how and why those DVOA percentages are the way they are and how they got there. For example, sure the Titans are great in the red zone. But What about 1st and 2nd down? Are you letting the opposing team run down field at will at crucial times? Who have you played? Are you getting alot of stops in garbage time? So many questions...I had a whole write up on this and was going to provide to clear look on the whole process but... 4) It's up to the user to be able to fully comprehend on how it all works and use it in a way it was intended. The algorithm used is proprietary. But all of the compiled info and pieces that go into the final calculations are all readily available. Some of which are just not available to the free public (this is an important note as well). Sorry HTT, I know this doesn't necessarily answer your question or anything. Your response just seemed to be along to same basis that I was aiming for earlier in the week and so I used it as chance to make a couple of statements about DVOA is all. Maybe one day I'll write out an entire post again(or blog, really, before I'm done) addressing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensDefense3 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 i have to say the ravens still, yes we got murdered by the Panthers and Bengals, but those are two good offenses that were playing at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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