.Buzz Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, KhanYouDigIt said: The Jags broke me. Fair. I'm the same way, but this was good to see. Gaining pick capital to hopefully further build up depth and/or give us ammunition to move up if we need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 This is the part where the Jaguars potentially get completely rinsed in this trade. In a lot of ways, Fowler is perfectly tailored to be that impact sack accumulator in a Wade Phillips defense with that absurd DLine causing havoc. He's going to be able to rush standing up, get big runs at guys and use that whole speed and speed-to-power gambit he uses in abundance, to win. He's going to eat, with that mostly 1-dimensional ability to be a Quinn-lite...in that rush LBer role and a monster DLine drawing all kinds of attention. It'll be Fowler vs RT Chump unassisted, and he's probably going to feast without the slightest whiff of finesse. Fowler has a motor, he's violent and physical, and he'll play right through the whistle...with pretty good athletic traits in a lot of respects. Which is the same **** the Rams pulled with Sammy Watkins. Trade for a guy running out his rookie deal, get that stretch drive and into the playoffs value out of them on the field...then let them walk and recoup a big compensatory pick on them. Someone is going to watch Fowler rip it up as a Wade Phillips 3-4 LBer and spend stupid money on him as a FA. Which in turn...will probably net the Rams a compensatory pick that more or less compensates for what they spent on him in trade here. And on our end now...when the Rams get a good comp pick from their expert management of players, contracts, situations, etc...we get an *** end of the 3rd round pick for a guy our GM spent a 3rd overall pick on a few years ago. We're probably going to get roughly the same pick for Fowler that the Rams will. Which is hilarious and bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Tugboat said: This is the part where the Jaguars potentially get completely rinsed in this trade. In a lot of ways, Fowler is perfectly tailored to be that impact sack accumulator in a Wade Phillips defense with that absurd DLine causing havoc. He's going to be able to rush standing up, get big runs at guys and use that whole speed and speed-to-power gambit he uses in abundance, to win. He's going to eat, with that mostly 1-dimensional ability to be a Quinn-lite...in that rush LBer role and a monster DLine drawing all kinds of attention. It'll be Fowler vs RT Chump unassisted, and he's probably going to feast without the slightest whiff of finesse. Fowler has a motor, he's violent and physical, and he'll play right through the whistle...with pretty good athletic traits in a lot of respects. Which is the same **** the Rams pulled with Sammy Watkins. Trade for a guy running out his rookie deal, get that stretch drive and into the playoffs value out of them on the field...then let them walk and recoup a big compensatory pick on them. Someone is going to watch Fowler rip it up as a Wade Phillips 3-4 LBer and spend stupid money on him as a FA. Which in turn...will probably net the Rams a compensatory pick that more or less compensates for what they spent on him in trade here. And on our end now...when the Rams get a good comp pick from their expert management of players, contracts, situations, etc...we get an *** end of the 3rd round pick for a guy our GM spent a 3rd overall pick on a few years ago. We're probably going to get roughly the same pick for Fowler that the Rams will. Which is hilarious and bad. How are we getting "rinsed" in a trade in that? The guy is gone in 8 games. Enough talk about where he was drafted, it doesn't matter anymore. The guy was not a part of the future and we shoppped him for the best possible package. What he does elsewhere isn't our concern. Here, he was nothing more than a solid rotational pass rusher, and elsewhere he's not anything more than that either unless the light clicks on for him. Even if the Rams do get a 3rd round comp pick in 2020 (which is definitely banking on Fowler making serious bank on the FA market, I think he'll get paid but this is extreme. Which is more possible not probable I'd say) we got the pick a year ahead of time which has value and a 5th round pick that same year in 2020 for a guy who was out the door in 8 games and had no value to us this season with where we're at. Not sure when a 3rd/comp 3rd a year ahead of the other became "more or less the same thing/value", but it most certainly isn't. Im over Caldwell, but this was a fantastic move. You don't sit on your hands because you're worried about what he'll do elsewhere, especially if you can't pay him with the slew of other guys and our current cap situation as is. Not to mention if he has that large of market, why would you want to pay a rotational guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, .Buzz said: How are we getting "rinsed" in a trade in that? The guy is gone in 8 games. Enough talk about where he was drafted, it doesn't matter anymore. The guy was not a part of the future and we shoppped him for the best possible package. What he does elsewhere isn't our concern. Here, he was nothing more than a solid rotational pass rusher, and elsewhere he's not anything more than that either unless the light clicks on for him. Even if the Rams do get a 3rd round comp pick in 2020 (which is definitely banking on Fowler making serious bank on the FA market, I think he'll get paid but this is extreme. Which is more possible not probable I'd say) we got the pick a year ahead of time which has value and a 5th round pick that same year in 2020 for a guy who was out the door in 8 games and had no value to us this season with where we're at. Not sure when a 3rd/comp 3rd a year ahead of the other became "more or less the same thing/value", but it most certainly isn't. Im over Caldwell, but this was a fantastic move. You don't sit on your hands because you're worried about what he'll do elsewhere, especially if you can't pay him with the slew of other guys and our current cap situation as is. Not to mention if he has that large of market, why would you want to pay a rotational guy? We get rinsed in the sense that...the Rams are very possibly going to get a compensatory pick that nearly equals what they send to us as the compensation for Fowler. A guy our illustrious GM selected Top-3 overall. While the Rams GM is finding ways to exploit the system like he did with Watkins and potentially get at least some of the pick he sends us back via the compensatory pick formula...our staff are like, "**** it...don't need this guy anymore, even tho we drafted him Top-3". Sending him out for a conditional 3rd and a 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duuuuuvaal Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 6 hours ago, Tugboat said: This is the part where the Jaguars potentially get completely rinsed in this trade. In a lot of ways, Fowler is perfectly tailored to be that impact sack accumulator in a Wade Phillips defense with that absurd DLine causing havoc. He's going to be able to rush standing up, get big runs at guys and use that whole speed and speed-to-power gambit he uses in abundance, to win. He's going to eat, with that mostly 1-dimensional ability to be a Quinn-lite...in that rush LBer role and a monster DLine drawing all kinds of attention. It'll be Fowler vs RT Chump unassisted, and he's probably going to feast without the slightest whiff of finesse. Fowler has a motor, he's violent and physical, and he'll play right through the whistle...with pretty good athletic traits in a lot of respects. Which is the same **** the Rams pulled with Sammy Watkins. Trade for a guy running out his rookie deal, get that stretch drive and into the playoffs value out of them on the field...then let them walk and recoup a big compensatory pick on them. Someone is going to watch Fowler rip it up as a Wade Phillips 3-4 LBer and spend stupid money on him as a FA. Which in turn...will probably net the Rams a compensatory pick that more or less compensates for what they spent on him in trade here. And on our end now...when the Rams get a good comp pick from their expert management of players, contracts, situations, etc...we get an *** end of the 3rd round pick for a guy our GM spent a 3rd overall pick on a few years ago. We're probably going to get roughly the same pick for Fowler that the Rams will. Which is hilarious and bad. Exactly. I hate this trade. We are essentially getting a 5th rd 2020 pick to lose him for the second half of the season and now we don’t have two respectable edge rushers to come off the edge in pass rushing situations. Meanwhile the rich get richer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 20 minutes ago, Duuuuuvaal said: Exactly. I hate this trade. We are essentially getting a 5th rd 2020 pick to lose him for the second half of the season and now we don’t have two respectable edge rushers to come off the edge in pass rushing situations. Meanwhile the rich get richer I’m not really worried about going 5-11 rather than 6-10. It’s not a big deal. We got the 3rd a year earlier. TVM >>>>>>> Also - with us in the market for a QB, we could easily end up signing someone that completely washes away the ability for us to get ANY comp pick for Fowler anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 There is no QB in the 2019 draft that is going to change the Jags outlook on improved play for that position over what we've had for the last 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duuuuuvaal Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, pwny said: I’m not really worried about going 5-11 rather than 6-10. It’s not a big deal. We got the 3rd a year earlier. TVM >>>>>>> Also - with us in the market for a QB, we could easily end up signing someone that completely washes away the ability for us to get ANY comp pick for Fowler anyway. So you are thinking with Fournette back and the way easier half of the schedule coming up we go 2-6 or 3-5? Show some faith dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Just now, Duuuuuvaal said: So you are thinking with Fournette back and the way easier half of the schedule coming up we go 2-6 or 3-5? Show some faith dude Nah, I’m good. 5-11, 7-9, 8-8. Doesn’t matter, the season is done. The team knows it too, it’s exactly why they made the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuvalsKing Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, pwny said: Nah, I’m good. 5-11, 7-9, 8-8. Doesn’t matter, the season is done. The team knows it too, it’s exactly why they made the trade. Agreed this team doesn't even have the fight of a playoff team they win 7 games at the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Tugboat said: We get rinsed in the sense that...the Rams are very possibly going to get a compensatory pick that nearly equals what they send to us as the compensation for Fowler. A guy our illustrious GM selected Top-3 overall. While the Rams GM is finding ways to exploit the system like he did with Watkins and potentially get at least some of the pick he sends us back via the compensatory pick formula...our staff are like, "**** it...don't need this guy anymore, even tho we drafted him Top-3". Sending him out for a conditional 3rd and a 5th. Again, it doesn't matter where he got picked. He was a bust. Weve known that for a while now. He's not a starting edge. He can't be your primary edge. He struggles to beat his man one on one. You act as if he's the first guy to be taken top 3 and bust. Fact of the matter is that happens quite often. If you wanna **** on Caldwell for where he was taken, go for it, but the value we got back in this trade is fantastic. You also act as if the year doesn't matter of the pick, which is extremely false/wrong. AND you assume Fowler, who isn't a premier anything, gets the highest possible comp pick you can. Value was fantastic. If you wanna be pissed about the player and where he was drafted that's a whole different deal, but losing Fowler doesn't make us fall off nor does it move the needle for them really at all. Snacks Harrison, a permier run stopping DT, went for a 5th round pick. DT, who has definitely lost a stop but is still a solid WR who has control, went for a 4th round pick. Not to mention his QB situation has been hilariously awful most of his career. If you think we're getting a 1st or 2nd for a damn rotational pass rusher who has 8 games til FA you're nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Again, it doesn't matter where he got picked. He was a bust. Weve known that for a while now. He's not a starting edge. He can't be your primary edge. He struggles to beat his man one on one. You act as if he's the first guy to be taken top 3 and bust. Fact of the matter is that happens quite often. If you wanna **** on Caldwell for where he was taken, go for it, but the value we got back in this trade is fantastic. You also act as if the year doesn't matter of the pick, which is extremely false/wrong. AND you assume Fowler, who isn't a premier anything, gets the highest possible comp pick you can. Value was fantastic. If you wanna be pissed about the player and where he was drafted that's a whole different deal, but losing Fowler doesn't make us fall off nor does it move the needle for them really at all. Snacks Harrison, a permier run stopping DT, went for a 5th round pick. DT, who has definitely lost a stop but is still a solid WR who has control, went for a 4th round pick. Not to mention his QB situation has been hilariously awful most of his career. If you think we're getting a 1st or 2nd for a damn rotational pass rusher who has 8 games til FA you're nuts. It seems to happen more for Dave man. And it also matters because another team is about to get a comparable pick out of it...compared to our "firesale". Plus, trying to justify things as being "maybe good for next year" is the most bull**** thing possible tbh. They should've armed this team up to make a run THIS YEAR. Not next year where the cap is gonna **** up everything. This is a team that should've been build to maximize this season. End. Stop. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tugboat said: It seems to happen more for Dave man. And it also matters because another team is about to get a comparable pick out of it...compared to our "firesale". Plus, trying to justify things as being "maybe good for next year" is the most bull**** thing possible tbh. They should've armed this team up to make a run THIS YEAR. Not next year where the cap is gonna **** up everything. This is a team that should've been build to maximize this season. End. Stop. Period. Listen man. You are arguing a completely different thing. Dave ****ed up. No if's, and's, or but's about it. We aren't where we should be in the standings. Our FO's banked on a lot of things that were far fetched and they should be held accountable. They cost us a SB window and things are extremely iffy long term due to the QB spot being vacant basically at the minute. But this trade, value wise, is good. To sit here and talk about where Fowler is drafted or a possible comp down the road doesn't matter. We got the best value possible and more than we would have got if we kept him in a lost season. Most people didn't expect us nabbing a 3rd, let alone a 3rd+ in the upcoming draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 9 hours ago, pwny said: I’m not really worried about going 5-11 rather than 6-10. It’s not a big deal. We got the 3rd a year earlier. TVM >>>>>>> Also - with us in the market for a QB, we could easily end up signing someone that completely washes away the ability for us to get ANY comp pick for Fowler anyway. But it could wind up being the Rams comp pick right? Therefore 2020? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: But it could wind up being the Rams comp pick right? Therefore 2020? No. If they get a 3rd round comp pick this year for Trumaine Johnson/Sammy Watkins, we would get the highest of those comp picks. If not, we get their original third rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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