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Who should replace HHCD?

Who should replace Dix?  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Who should replace Dix?

    • Tramon Williams
      27
    • Josh Jackson
      19
    • Josh Jones
      12
    • Whitehead
      7
    • Other (Green, Breeland, Brown)
      9


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45 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

The issue I have with moving Tramon is he's being moved there out of necessity on 2 fronts:

1) because he's so bad at CB he basically can't play there

2) We have no deep safety

 

Rather than this being a situation where Tramon is responsible for the 2nd/3rd/4th option, this might actually turn into a situation where he's in higher leverage situations against the other team's best plays/players.

3 outcomes:

1) He plays well at S and we also get better at CB so play actually improves.  I give that about... 10-20% chance.

2) He plays average to poor at S, but someone steps up at CB and plays better than he was playing.  Defense gets slightly worse because HHCD was actually good at S and Tramon was bad but in a less important spot.  40-50% chance

3) He plays poor at S, and no one really establishes things at CB.  Defense goes from bad to terribad all of a sudden. 30-40%

I don't know that I understand where this is coming from.  Tramon's given up a handful of TDs to explosive players this year no doubt, but he played every snap against the Rams.  If he couldn't play corner at all, you best believe McVay and company would have been targeting him relentlessly.  They did not.  Do people have evidence of Tramon being literally unable to play CB, because I haven't seen that at all.

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4 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

I don't know that I understand where this is coming from.  Tramon's given up a handful of TDs to explosive players this year no doubt, but he played every snap against the Rams.  If he couldn't play corner at all, you best believe McVay and company would have been targeting him relentlessly.  They did not.  Do people have evidence of Tramon being literally unable to play CB, because I haven't seen that at all.

They did target him.  That's when things opened up in the 2nd half for them.  A few plays were hit on to Robert Woods, a few plays goff missed a throw because we got pressure.

They didn't throw at king except once, they tried to throw on JA with their best guy in Cooks.. and eventually they settled on whitehead, the LBs and Tramon.  That became their adjustment.

Tramon everywhere and Brice deep were the obvious weak links in pass coverage.  That's how teams are attacking us.

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10 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

They did target him.  That's when things opened up in the 2nd half for them.  A few plays were hit on to Robert Woods, a few plays goff missed a throw because we got pressure.

They didn't throw at king except once, they tried to throw on JA with their best guy in Cooks.. and eventually they settled on whitehead, the LBs and Tramon.  That became their adjustment.

Tramon everywhere and Brice deep were the obvious weak links in pass coverage.  That's how teams are attacking us.

Man I love when people just start making things up to support what they already want to believe.  I just rewatched the entire second half of the game on Game Pass and this isn't at all the case.  They targeted Tramon once in the second half, a completion to Robert Woods for 19 yards.  He spent most of the half blitzing from the slot.  They completed two passes against Alexander in the second half , 2 against Whitehead in man coverage, and a handful against the zone.  They didn't target Brice a single time.  So basically, I'm curious why you felt the need to lie and make up a bunch of stuff when it's really easy to just watch and realize you don't know what you're talking about.

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1 minute ago, MrBobGray said:

Man I love when people just start making things up to support what they already want to believe.  I just rewatched the entire second half of the game on Game Pass and this isn't at all the case.  They targeted Tramon once in the second half, a completion to Robert Woods for 19 yards.  He spent most of the half blitzing from the slot.  They completed two passes against Alexander in the second half , 2 against Whitehead in man coverage, and a handful against the zone.  They didn't target Brice a single time.  So basically, I'm curious why you felt the need to lie and make up a bunch of stuff when it's really easy to just watch and realize you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm just reporting what I remember watching on game day.  Lots of posts about tramon being out of position and being really behind.  Haven't gone back and done a re-watch, but I'm sure if I do it'll come back the same as when I've done the re-watch for the first 6 games.  He's old, slow, and gives up free catches to decent players.  If he has to go against a good player, it's been a bloodbath.  His tackling from the off coverage position has been horrible and extended multiple drives.  His red zone coverage is embarassing.

 

I didn't say they targeted Brice.  Minnesota and Washington already proved he can't be trusted to play deep coverage at all.  There' no need to re-legislate that point.  The defense has already adapted to no longer using Brice in those situations because he is so inept at it that it is never worth the risk.

 

The 3 worst players in the secondary getting PT, are Brice, Whitehead, and Tramon.  Also that Tony Brown guy who kept getting penalties.

The 3 best were HHCD, King, and JA.   Now one of them is gone, and Tramon is slotted for a full time role at S filling the shoes of one of the best defenders.  How exactly is this going to go well?

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8 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

Man I love when people just start making things up to support what they already want to believe.  I just rewatched the entire second half of the game on Game Pass and this isn't at all the case.  They targeted Tramon once in the second half, a completion to Robert Woods for 19 yards.  He spent most of the half blitzing from the slot.  They completed two passes against Alexander in the second half , 2 against Whitehead in man coverage, and a handful against the zone.  They didn't target Brice a single time.  So basically, I'm curious why you felt the need to lie and make up a bunch of stuff when it's really easy to just watch and realize you don't know what you're talking about.

?????

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Just now, skibrett15 said:

I'm just reporting what I remember watching on game day.  Lots of posts about tramon being out of position and being really behind.  Haven't gone back and done a re-watch, but I'm sure if I do it'll come back the same as when I've done the re-watch for the first 6 games.  He's old, slow, and gives up free catches to decent players.  If he has to go against a good player, it's been a bloodbath.  His tackling from the off coverage position has been horrible and extended multiple drives.  His red zone coverage is embarassing.

And I'm telling you what I've seen rewatching most games multiple times, including the All-22.  The most I think I have him targeted is against Minnesota, and it was something like 5 targets.  He's generally been targeted 1-3 times a week.  His coverage is fine, and he still has wheels.  He could never run with guys like Goodwin and Diggs just got him turned around, which happens.  This "Tramon sucks" narrative comes entirely from assumptions about his age.  His tackling is fine, he hasn't missed any more tackles than the rest of our DBs minus Alexander and King.

Quote

I didn't say they targeted Brice.  Minnesota and Washington already proved he can't be trusted to play deep coverage at all.  There' no need to re-legislate that point.  The defense has already adapted to no longer using Brice in those situations because he is so inept at it that it is never worth the risk.

But you did say:

Quote

Tramon everywhere and Brice deep were the obvious weak links in pass coverage.  That's how teams are attacking us.

So, I'm not sure how you explain him not being targeted by the Rams at all as him being the obvious weak link.  No, he's not good playing over the top, but he hasn't been near as bad as people are making it out to be.  

Quote

The 3 worst players in the secondary getting PT, are Brice, Whitehead, and Tramon.  Also that Tony Brown guy who kept getting penalties.

The 3 best were HHCD, King, and JA.   Now one of them is gone, and Tramon is slotted for a full time role at S filling the shoes of one of the best defenders.  How exactly is this going to go well?

I mean there's only 7 DBs that regularly get playing time anyway.  You literally split them in half.  Saying Tramon is one of the 3 worst and HHCD is one of the three best means they're like, two spots away from each other on a totally arbitrary scale.  If Tramon can hang out over the top of receivers  most of the time he'll be contributing exactly as much as HHCD does in coverage.  HHCD has been killed on posts in the redzone all year, and his one snap of man coverage this game he got humiliated by Josh Reynolds, who's best described as "definitely does play receiver".  I'm concerned about Tramon filling against the run yes, but in every other way I just can't see this as a significant change in either direction.

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5 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I freaking hate how every player that leaves here gets ripped on. 

Everybody's going to sound like Outpost when Rodgers leaves.

I can't even imagine how vicious this place is going to be when Clay is gone.

To be fair, I've been sharing my dislike for HaHa's effort since this preseason.  

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4 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Me too.  I'm still really upset about the trade.  He would have been really useful showcasing his talents for a big contract should we make the playoffs.  It was a significant blow to our chances this year with a future payoff, but the present is always more valuable than the future and I think we still have a shot this year.

All I can do now is hope that the negative energy discharge galvanizes our team and improves our defense from a mentality perspective.

FWIW - 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Cheech said:

FWIW - 

 

 

Got to love Gutey.

The days of our GM sitting on his arse and waiting for compensatory picks to trickle in are thankfully gone.

 

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7 minutes ago, Cheech said:

FWIW - 

 

 

One would believe that the FO discussed this. I mean Gute could just trade away talent and tall MM to deal with it but I would think Gute and his coach and DC were able to see a plan forward all being on the same page. It wouldn't serve Gute well to just trade away the guy without ensuring his staff felt they could survive. I sure hope that is the case and that there is a plan, Gute's first draft and moves seem to show me that.

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3 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Got to love Gutey.

The days of our GM sitting on his arse and waiting for compensatory picks to trickle in are thankfully gone.

 

There are pro's to comp picks too. Some of the most successful teams in the last 10-15 years have also accumulated the most comp pics. I won't go find that data but it's been put out there before. With that said though a having a balance for setting up this roster through all means should be the course. Utilizing all avenues for player acquisition should be the norm rather then only one.

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6 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

There are pro's to comp picks too. Some of the most successful teams in the last 10-15 years have also accumulated the most comp pics. I won't go find that data but it's been put out there before. With that said though a having a balance for setting up this roster through all means should be the course. Utilizing all avenues for player acquisition should be the norm rather then only one.

Plus when/if we're up against in the future, and not spenders, he'll take comp picks too. He's smart, he'll use both. This was the real smart option now. It's not like Gute is this wild maverick GM. We're just so used to Ted that anyone who isn't completely conservative looks like the greatest man alive lol

Edited by Norm

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3 minutes ago, PACKRULE said:

There are pro's to comp picks too. 

Very true.

But given the dearth of draft pick talent the last few seasons, the Packers cannot continue to fail to add meaningful FAs to their roster at this point.

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19 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Got to love Gutey.

The days of our GM sitting on his arse and waiting for compensatory picks to trickle in are thankfully gone.

 

While I welcome Gutey and and being more aggressive in FA, need to remember those compensatory picks weren’t bad. In fact they brought Moore, MVS, JK Scott, and EQ this year alone for example.

 

*by the way I just remembered JK scott was drafted before MVS and had to laugh at that. 

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