drfrey13 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 hours ago, true2form said: Trade him, slight possibility. Cut him, come on man! If he keeps this up his trade value will be very low. Of course you try to trade him first. My main point was I do not think him being here is even close to a guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 2 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said: Sad to say but Gruden lost the team Who cares? Besides Osemele, Hudson, Rookies, and Conley, none of this team will remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 This loss doesn’t effect me one bit. I knew we would lose and Mullins would look like a stud. Three things this forum deliberately does not want to accept: 1) Gruden is tanking, on purpose. 2) Carr has been overrated since day one 3) McKenzie is a terrible drafter and cost us the window we could of had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 3 hours ago, BayRaider said: Who cares? Besides Osemele, Hudson, Rookies, and Conley, none of this team will remain. You should care. This is now is a systemic failure. This team under Gruden's guidance has hit rock bottom and there are no signs the philosophy and leadership can turn this around. This is more than a talent problem. Gruden is done, he's doesn't have it any longer and this game will serve as tipping point. The countdown is officially on. There is no signs of optimism. The team quit on this man. Many may not be back, but the culture will remain. And you're kidding yourself if you expect them to turn this around because of draft picks and salary cap money. You have to have a philosophy that works. A system that players buy into. And leadership that can be accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 3 hours ago, BayRaider said: This loss doesn’t effect me one bit. I knew we would lose and Mullins would look like a stud. Three things this forum deliberately does not want to accept: 1) Gruden is tanking, on purpose. 2) Carr has been overrated since day one 3) McKenzie is a terrible drafter and cost us the window we could of had You can't call the QB overrated and say the GM cost us the window we could have had. That make no sense whatsoever when QB is the most important piece to even having a window to begin with. Second... no coach tanks on purpose. They have more pride/ego than that. Maybe he's just a bbad HC and a worse GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riceman80 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 35 minutes ago, big_palooka said: You should care. This is now is a systemic failure. This team under Gruden's guidance has hit rock bottom and there are no signs the philosophy and leadership can turn this around. This is more than a talent problem. Gruden is done, he's doesn't have it any longer and this game will serve as tipping point. The countdown is officially on. There is no signs of optimism. The team quit on this man. Many may not be back, but the culture will remain. And you're kidding yourself if you expect them to turn this around because of draft picks and salary cap money. You have to have a philosophy that works. A system that players buy into. And leadership that can be accountable. +1. We already went thru this once remember? Thats why we had to pay guys like Tommy Kelly, Javon Walker, Gibril Wilson, and Kwame Harris ridiculous contracts to get them here. If we want an impact free agent, we dont need to just beat the offer, we'll have to blow it out of the water. And even then, alot of vets in search of a chance at a ring won't even pick up the phone for us i bet. Our team is a joke, our coaching is a joke, and our front office moves have been a joke(aside from Cooper trade only cuz Jerry was stupid as hell and panicked). It's beyond naive to think the majority of players don't see our team as a joke as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: You can't call the QB overrated and say the GM cost us the window we could have had. That make no sense whatsoever when QB is the most important piece to even having a window to begin with. Second... no coach tanks on purpose. They have more pride/ego than that. Maybe he's just a bbad HC and a worse GM. Gruden is the only coach who has the luxory to tank. Most coaches have to prove themself the first two years? Pride? Every coach would tank their first couple years if they could. What Gruden is doing is the correct move. Whether he is the correct one to build the roster remains to be seen but if we have a championship roster in 4-5 years I cannot wait to see all of this forums over reactions and bring up a couple threads. People are treating this like Art Shell’s 2-14 year when they are nothing alike and we are in tank mode til Vegas. If we win the SB in 5 years I’ll be quoting you as a fan who ripped Gruden apart, couldn't see the big picture, and now riding the championship wave after all the criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 52 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Gruden is the only coach who has the luxory to tank. Most coaches have to prove themself the first two years? Pride? Every coach would tank their first couple years if they could. What Gruden is doing is the correct move. Whether he is the correct one to build the roster remains to be seen but if we have a championship roster in 4-5 years I cannot wait to see all of this forums over reactions and bring up a couple threads. People are treating this like Art Shell’s 2-14 year when they are nothing alike and we are in tank mode til Vegas. If we win the SB in 5 years I’ll be quoting you as a fan who ripped Gruden apart, couldn't see the big picture, and now riding the championship wave after all the criticism. This. There is no guarantee Gruden will succeed, but there is no guarantee he will fail either. He's building this team from the ground up. We may laugh at it(or cry) in 4-5 years or we may be saying he did it the Jimmy Johnson way. Unfortunately for the impatient, we won't know for years. Fans and the media can say he doesn't know what he's doing. He's lost the team. None of that matters. This "team" won't be the same. How many of the players on this roster do you guys think will be around nest season? 2 years? 3? I'm guessing there are at most 12 guys that Gruden has to worry about for the future. Everyone else do your job and audition for the rest of the league or you may not get another job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, true2form said: This. There is no guarantee Gruden will succeed, but there is no guarantee he will fail either. He's building this team from the ground up. We may laugh at it(or cry) in 4-5 years or we may be saying he did it the Jimmy Johnson way. Unfortunately for the impatient, we won't know for years. Fans and the media can say he doesn't know what he's doing. He's lost the team. None of that matters. This "team" won't be the same. How many of the players on this roster do you guys think will be around nest season? 2 years? 3? I'm guessing there are at most 12 guys that Gruden has to worry about for the future. Everyone else do your job and audition for the rest of the league or you may not get another job. Yeah one thing pay attention to way too much is the media. I never watch that garbage. Biggest brainwashing rubbish there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: Gruden is the only coach who has the luxory to tank. Most coaches have to prove themself the first two years? Pride? Every coach would tank their first couple years if they could. What Gruden is doing is the correct move. Whether he is the correct one to build the roster remains to be seen but if we have a championship roster in 4-5 years I cannot wait to see all of this forums over reactions and bring up a couple threads. People are treating this like Art Shell’s 2-14 year when they are nothing alike and we are in tank mode til Vegas. If we win the SB in 5 years I’ll be quoting you as a fan who ripped Gruden apart, couldn't see the big picture, and now riding the championship wave after all the criticism. Keep drinking the kool-aid. Gruden is done. He's lost his fire and edge for coaching. It's about the money, that's the only reason he is even on the sidelines. He's not long for it either. His team quit on him 8 games into a 10 year contract. If Gruden gets to a playoff game in 5 years, you can quote anything you'd like from me. I personally don't think he will last that long. He's shell of his former self, it just a fact. Old Gruden would eaten Carr alive for his performances. He would have cut Towsend after his first shanked punt cost them field position. He would have rode a talent like Cooper hard every day to get better. He wouldn't stand for an Oline being coached the way it is. That Gruden was a leader. This Gruden is a media guy with sound bites and nothing left for coaching young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Just now, big_palooka said: Keep drinking the kool-aid. Gruden is done. He's lost his fire and edge for coaching. It's about the money, that's the only reason he is even on the sidelines. He's not long for it either. His team quit on him 8 games into a 10 year contract. If Gruden gets to a playoff game in 5 years, you can quote anything you'd like from me. I personally don't think he will last that long. He's shell of his former self, it just a fact. Old Gruden would eaten Carr alive for his performances. He would have cut Towsend after his first shanked punt cost them field position. He would have rode a talent like Cooper hard every day to get better. He wouldn't stand for an Oline being coached the way it is. That Gruden was a leader. This Gruden is a media guy with sound bites and nothing left for coaching young players. Lol who cares if he loses this team. It will look totally different soon. And he wants to lose right now, why would be cutting Townsend? You’re looking at this from such a close minded and so certain point of view. I’m not saying Gruden IS the guy but it’s obvious he’s tanking and wants to build his own team. Any performance or reaction on the field cannot be properly judged this season or next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 51 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Lol who cares if he loses this team. It will look totally different soon. Becuase it creates (or in this case sustains) the culture. The players change, the coaches change, the results have been the same for 15 years..... It's broken at the top. What leadership is in that locker room right now that's going to change this culture? Look at the Cleveland Browns. All the turnover, draft picks, etc. Still a dysfunctional mess of a franchise. 53 minutes ago, BayRaider said: And he wants to lose right now, why would be cutting Townsend? You’re looking at this from such a close minded and so certain point of view. I’m not saying Gruden IS the guy but it’s obvious he’s tanking and wants to build his own team. Any performance or reaction on the field cannot be properly judged this season or next season. Of course he wants to build his team. That was obvious. But you're kidding yourself if you don't think he legit thought he could compete with all his "veteran leaders" who have since quit on him. Guys retiring midseason. Asking to be cut.... Again, it's a culture of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver&Black88 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: Lol who cares if he loses this team. It will look totally different soon. Are you gonna say that if he loses the next set of guys too? Sorry, but you simply can't defend a coach losing his locker room in one year. It isn't even a year. Half a season. Legendary. I know these aren't normal circumstances but that is seriously unheard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 35 minutes ago, Silver&Black88 said: Are you gonna say that if he loses the next set of guys too? Sorry, but you simply can't defend a coach losing his locker room in one year. It isn't even a year. Half a season. Legendary. I know these aren't normal circumstances but that is seriously unheard of. How was he not gonna lose the locker room when we are trying to get the #1 pick? And only like 8-10 of these guys will be in the team in the next 3 years. Gruden could care less if he lost the locker room. This forum, and the media, has a terrible track record of looking at the immediate short term and always being wrong in the long term. Always. Gruden is looking at this in the long term, doesn’t care what fans think in the mean time, and his goal is to build a championship roster in the next 3-4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Like they did during the game, I'll keep referencing this: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1992-01-05-9201020379-story.html http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/11659891/herschel-walker-trade-25th-anniversary-run-birthed-dallas-cowboys-dynasty It's clear to anyone who wants to see it that this is the plan. No one knows if it will work, but this is what's happening like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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