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KingTitan

GM Robinson- Good or Bad compared to the league. Comprehensive discussion on GM expectations

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11 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

Added 2 players to the core through the draft and one via FA? When you say to the core of the team do you mean all pros that will be lifetime Titans? There are generally a lot of relatively average players that make up the core of a team for a season.

I'm going to leave out 2018 because we can't judge those guys off 7 games, but these were all positive additions in 2 years.

Jack Conklin, Adoree Jackson, Jayon Brown, Corey Davis, Kevin Byard.

Logan Ryan, Rishard Matthews, Ben Jones, Demarco Murray.

Matthews leaving after two years doesn't mean that he wasn't still a very good signing. Murray was a good move for us at the time and we would still do it today. Davis is a beast, but stats won't reflect it because Mariota isn't throwing outside the numbers 10+ yds down the field. 

I don't know what average is for a GM over those two years, but I would have to guess his successful additions were at the very least average. He's certainly hasn't been bullet proof.

Year three is going to depend a lot in Evans and Landry turning out to be very good because Butler is already looking like a bad signing and we had so few picks. Lewis looks good. Correa trade looks solid.

 

And this is what I'm trying to get an answer for....

What is the barometer. I keep hearing how average he is....how he is less than stellar here or there.  What is considered stellar to people? 
Hit on ever FA signing and pick? 
Who is excellent? Who is bullet proof based on their draft/FA record?

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15 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

And this is what I'm trying to get an answer for....

What is the barometer. I keep hearing how average he is....how he is less than stellar here or there.  What is considered stellar to people? 
Hit on ever FA signing and pick? 
Who is excellent? Who is bullet proof based on their draft/FA record?

Yeah I don't think he's God's gift as we pre-maturely made him out to be, but I think he's been solid.

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7 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

Yeah I don't think he's God's gift as we pre-maturely made him out to be, but I think he's been solid.

I think he was our gift from God at the right moment and time for when we needed it. . :)

He delivered the roster from bottom cellar to competitive roster. 

He made some great moves that worked and we weren't used to that. So like a 4 TD opening game, it gets you pumped up when you have been used to Mett/Fitz/Locker.  Lol

I think he is a good GM, among the better ones in the league. He has come back to Earth and isn't rolling in constant hits. 

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Robinson has proven thus far that he’s a good GM. To say otherwise is pretty dumb imo. Just look at where we were to where we are now since the organization’s been under his management. No GM hits on all their draft picks and FA’s....what’s more important is to look at the end results and the culture he’s established....again, the end results (up to this point) are back to back winning seasons, a playoff appearance, and a playoff victory - the first in 14 years. The culture he’s established is pretty evident imo, just compare it to what’s going on in Jacksonville. We’re in the same position as them and you don’t see our locker room falling apart like theirs.

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1 hour ago, KingTitan said:

Well I guess that's my purpose of the thread. What is good for a GM? 

Is there a clear level or standard that he should be graded on?

We've seen GM's with picks and they mess up. Partriots routinely cut 2nd round or 3rd round picks after a couple of years. How many great draft picks come to mind when you think of the Patriots in the last 4-5 years? 

In general what do you think is the expectation for a draft class? Have 3 starters come from each? 2 and a backup? All be contributors?

Me creating this thread found that a lot of drafts aren't producing consistently productive players. (Last 3 years). Let me rephrase that. Names that someone not following the team would instantly know.We know Jayon Brown is playing well but would a Cardinals fan know that?

I'm sincerely curious to know from you and others what could a GM not just our GM but a NFL GM do to be considered a successful one. 

 

I consider a draft pick successful if the team at least tried to prioritize signing them to a second contract... Regardless of round drafted in... But especially picks made in the first 3 rounds. 

Considering we have 22 starters, I would assume we find about 4 starters each year, whether it's via the draft or FA (that gives us an average life span of 5.5 years per starter)... That's an average of course... Since years you'll replace more, some years less... Some players will be there 10 years, some 2...etc.

From the 2016 draft, how many players do you expect to be resigned... 2 for sure. What about Sims or Sharpe... Henry and Johnson? There are anyway 4 players are already gone from that draft. Odds are at least 2 more wont be resigned after next year... So that leaves 4 of the 10 picks on a second contract.. 2 starters, 2 depth players.

And of the FAs, one will even see their contract to the end. 

 

1 hour ago, TitanSS said:

Added 2 players to the core through the draft and one via FA? When you say to the core of the team do you mean all pros that will be lifetime Titans? There are generally a lot of relatively average players that make up the core of a team for a season.

I'm going to leave out 2018 because we can't judge those guys off 7 games, but these were all positive additions in 2 years.

Jack Conklin, Adoree Jackson, Jayon Brown, Corey Davis, Kevin Byard.

Logan Ryan, Rishard Matthews, Ben Jones, Demarco Murray.

Matthews leaving after two years doesn't mean that he wasn't still a very good signing. Murray was a good move for us at the time and we would still do it today. Davis is a beast, but stats won't reflect it because Mariota isn't throwing outside the numbers 10+ yds down the field. 

I don't know what average is for a GM over those two years, but I would have to guess his successful additions were at the very least average. He's certainly hasn't been bullet proof.

Year three is going to depend a lot in Evans and Landry turning out to be very good because Butler is already looking like a bad signing and we had so few picks. Lewis looks good. Correa trade looks solid.

 

 

Core players are players you build your teams future around. Lewan, Casey, Walker, Mariota, Conklin, Byard (?)...maybe even Ryan (who's been severely underrated by the board). Davis and Adoree aren't there yet... Still have a ways to go.

Guys like Matthews, Murray, Jones are not core guys you build your team around... They're complimentary players out short term solutions 

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I'm not trying to say JRob is horrible... But hes far from the Golden boy a lot of us (myself included) thought he was after that 2016 trade and draft.

He's been average to this point... Great that we've gone 21-18 since he's taken over... But like I've said, this was a situation he walked into that was pretty favorable. He came in with a successful rookie qb in place, a franchise LT in place... 2 of the best franchise players in veteran leadership positions... And the 1st overall pick. It's like when a president takes over... First year can be attributed to the person he took over for... Or similar to Gruden winning a SB in Tampa his first year there. Crazy that one of JRobs best moves may have been agreeing to keeping Mularkey and stabilizing a young team. 

Now in year 3, what has he added to the team he took over that's going to push it to the next level? 

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I don’t really know how to evaluate it

I think that he’s definitely a fine GM. Committed to putting a winner out there and totally turned us around after the Whiz days, so that’s fantastic.

 

We seem a bit stuck in neutral, though, and I think the biggest thing to blame is the offense as a whole, which JRob contributes to. Frustrating seeing a team like the Rams turn it around overnight, then exciting to get a guy from the Rams like LeFleur just to have our O still look reminiscent of Robiskie-ball. A ton of factors play into that...injuries and guys not stepping up. I think that this franchise is much more committed to winning than it was only 4 years ago, but we still just feel snakebitten. Like imagine the Rams losing to the Bills the way we did. It would never happen in this day and age. Why are there teams that consistently win games they “should” win on paper, but those are the games we damn near always lose. Who’s to blame for that and what’s the fix?

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Jon has been a good GM here, but I agree with @deeluxx3 in that we seem like we're stuck in neutral.  I think that one reason for that is because Jon believes so much in his young players/evaluations of UDFAs that it can sometimes lead to headstrong moves and putting young guys in important spots before they're actually ready for them.  He doesn't really give his young guys much of a "buffer zone" to grow by adding vets that can handle the workload if they struggle. The biggest problem most of our young guys have had is just straight inconsistencies. Davis has had them, Taywan has had them, Henry has had them, etc but these guys (especially the receivers) were thrust into premium roles without much competition, so their shortcomings have been magnified directly because of how Jon built this roster. He expected certain guys that he drafted to make the jump to starter material this year, and it just hasn't happened. He didn't really have a contingency plan for that.

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Part of the reason why he's not a poor GM, we now feel like there are games we should win.

3 and 4 years ago we were the game everyone should win literally every week. We were a Browns quality team. Yeah he had a good opportunity to add pieces through the draft. So did the Browns. It panned out way worse for them than it did for us. He's missed numerous times, but everyone has.

The Rams got a haul in the RG3 trade and never actually took that leap until they got a QB and a quality coach. Part of the reason guys like Robert Woods and Cooper Kupp look so good is because of Goff and Mcvay. How good a WR is in the minds of the public is often very dependant on stats, which requires a QB. Woods didn't suddenly become a better player with the Rams. He went to a team where the QB was good at getting the ball in his hands. 

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