How would you use the Le'Veon sized chunk of cap space that will free up this offseason?

[Chieferific]

Just now, MOSteelers56 said:

Could be a lazy factor too. Sometimes people get used to living with a lot of money and their interests fall away from work. I'm just throwing that out there, I have no idea if Artie is lazy. 

Good point. But usually those lazy players step up their play when it's contract time. We'll see if that seems to be a factor in Burns' play next year. 

[Dcash4]

3 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

 Davis was very arguably the worst safety in the league in 2017. I don't care how many tackles he had, I watched him play all year... And he was utter garbage. He is definitely playing better this year, but again, I don't get the logic of paying a guy more money because he's looked better for 8 games, while ignoring how terrible he looked his first two years. Again, I'm not saying he couldn't have improved, but I'm not sold on him yet and wouldn't give him an extension until he proved it another year.

Burns is terrible. Plain and simple. I don't care how old he is. True, he isn't making much... he isn't even worth what he's making. Like I said, if he wasn't a former first-round pick, have would have been cut already. People just seem to be reluctant to admit he's a bust. If we keep him, so be it... But I have absolutely no faith left in the guy.

Davis was never the worst safety in he league man, that’s exactly why I point out the missed tackles, because it’s what people focus on. Don’t listen to PPF and watch more NFL teams. You can’t name 30 hands down better (not arguably better) safeties in the league — and that would put him right in the middle anyway. The tackles show a direct correlation to how often he was around the ball. This isn’t my campaigning for Sean Davis as a 2017 pro bowler, but The only reason “evaluators” marked Davis that poorly was because of his missed tackles and his nationally televised drive matched up with Gronk. Was he great? No. But I’m not sure what expectations playing beside Mike Mitchell and Artie Burns with a defense that continually broke down with communication were. Davis’s issues have been correctable and coachable flaws. Consistency has been his issue, not ability. So when I see a more consistent player, in year three, that makes me believe that - like many other NFL players in year 3 - the understanding and the speed of the game are catching up. I haven’t said you pay him this week, but if he continues this trend you absolutely do it.

And waiting another year could literally cost you $3-4M per year in contract. We own the leverage right now. I’m not sure what you assume I think a good contract extension would be - but it’s around 4 years at $20M max. That puts him largely in the middle of saftey money, doesn’t bind you long term, and allows a floor of at least being a special teamer and third saftey without overpaying If you do indeed draft a better player. 

In terms of Burns, I’m really not sure there is anyone who doesn’t consider him a bust at this point, but my focus is maximizing an asset. We DID use a first round pick on him, and we ARE paying him something next year. Those are two facts that cannot be denied. Cutting him before camp is waste of a part of an asset. If you sell me a $500 watch and I only pay you $100 for it, your not going to spend $80 and throw away the rest because it was a bad investment. You are going to spend the rest of that $20. Maybe starting from the bottom would do Burns some good. Maybe he can buy in and be a key special teams asset. The cost financially and asset wise, is worth getting to camp with.

 

[AFF]

Like 43 said, I’d also look into resigning Haden...maybe tear up this deal and just give him a fresh 3 yr $35millish deal

[VigilantZombie]

10 minutes ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

Like 43 said, I’d also look into resigning Haden...maybe tear up this deal and just give him a fresh 3 yr $35millish deal

I really hope this happens, I'd really like to see Haden retire in Pittsburgh.

[3rivers]

29 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

I really hope this happens, I'd really like to see Haden retire in Pittsburgh.

me too, but what if he went back to the browns now that they have Ward and are on their way to winning more? 

[3rivers]

6 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Burns is terrible. Plain and simple. I don't care how old he is. True, he isn't making much... he isn't even worth what he's making. Like I said, if he wasn't a former first-round pick, have would have been cut already. People just seem to be reluctant to admit he's a bust. If we keep him, so be it... But I have absolutely no faith left in the guy.

Agree 100% . The problem now is that he is wasting a roster spot that another player could help the team with , B. Allen possibly or Adeyini which is what bothers me the most. It is a trait this regime has that needs to be corrected , don't let RD1 picks stay on the team regardless. If they don't play near the RD1 status, trade them while you can.  If burns fails a few more times this season, I doubt we can trade him at all in the spring, just a waste any way we think of it.  Antwan Blake was probably better if you can believe that. Wasting Ben and AB's career away with scrubs at CB in the new pass happy nfl, nice move colbert

[43M]

6 hours ago, Alex said:

Have you seen the draft class or free agency class? Aside from Tre Boston who may or may not be a much of upgrade, would we be able to upgrade Sean Davis? The ball-hawking free safety pool is shrinking rapidly, it's becoming harder and harder to find that talent- WHO can tackle. If you have a choice, would you keep Sean Davis who is decent at everything or get somebody who is a specialty at something? 

I didn't say cut him... Just that I wouldn't give him an extension this offseason. 

[43M]

2 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

Davis was never the worst safety in he league man, that’s exactly why I point out the missed tackles, because it’s what people focus on. Don’t listen to PPF and watch more NFL teams. You can’t name 30 hands down better (not arguably better) safeties in the league — and that would put him right in the middle anyway. The tackles show a direct correlation to how often he was around the ball. This isn’t my campaigning for Sean Davis as a 2017 pro bowler, but The only reason “evaluators” marked Davis that poorly was because of his missed tackles and his nationally televised drive matched up with Gronk. Was he great? No. But I’m not sure what expectations playing beside Mike Mitchell and Artie Burns with a defense that continually broke down with communication were. Davis’s issues have been correctable and coachable flaws. Consistency has been his issue, not ability. So when I see a more consistent player, in year three, that makes me believe that - like many other NFL players in year 3 - the understanding and the speed of the game are catching up. I haven’t said you pay him this week, but if he continues this trend you absolutely do it.

And waiting another year could literally cost you $3-4M per year in contract. We own the leverage right now. I’m not sure what you assume I think a good contract extension would be - but it’s around 4 years at $20M max. That puts him largely in the middle of saftey money, doesn’t bind you long term, and allows a floor of at least being a special teamer and third saftey without overpaying If you do indeed draft a better player. 

In terms of Burns, I’m really not sure there is anyone who doesn’t consider him a bust at this point, but my focus is maximizing an asset. We DID use a first round pick on him, and we ARE paying him something next year. Those are two facts that cannot be denied. Cutting him before camp is waste of a part of an asset. If you sell me a $500 watch and I only pay you $100 for it, your not going to spend $80 and throw away the rest because it was a bad investment. You are going to spend the rest of that $20. Maybe starting from the bottom would do Burns some good. Maybe he can buy in and be a key special teams asset. The cost financially and asset wise, is worth getting to camp with.

 

Yeah, he absolutely was one of the worst in the League last year. You can choose to believe whatever you want, but he was laughably bad in 2017. He missed tons of tackles and he was horrible in coverage. And please don't tell me not to listen to PFF... I've been saying for years they are a joke. I don't care one bit what they think.

Burns won't be cut... My only point was that I would cut him if it were my call... But it obviously isn't. I don't think he has any real value left.

[3rivers]

If we don't play burns on D for another single snap, is there a chance we will be able to trade him in the spring at all for anything (player or RD7 pick) or even for Mr.Irrelevant to be himself?

[VigilantZombie]

No, Burns has played away his value and Sean Davis while much improved was definitely the worst safety at one point. 

[Dcash4]

26 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Yeah, he absolutely was one of the worst in the League last year. You can choose to believe whatever you want, but he was laughably bad in 2017. He missed tons of tackles and he was horrible in coverage. And please don't tell me not to listen to PFF... I've been saying for years they are a joke. I don't care one bit what they think.

Thank you for this well thought out and thouroughly detailed description of his failures. I see the error in my ways. 

Unless you have more than that (and there are plenty of details to describe his short comings) your selling me exactly what I’m telling you is the misleading portion of why the coverage of Sean Davis is that he was THAT awful. You see a missed tackle - that dude sucks. You see a ball caught while he is in the area (without knowing anything of the playcall and assignments) - that dude sucks. The Gronk example is my favorite because people think he gets lit up (he does, it’s freaking Gronk). And then when asked why they would put Davis singled up on Gronk....they all said he wasn’t supposed to be....they called for double coverage and he never got the help. But, nope. Sean Davis sucks. 

Saying he is laughably bad is, aside from being very PFF, an incorrect assessment of his actual year. Artie Burns is having a laughably bad season, and could be considered one of the worst, if not the worst at his position. Every time the ball is thrown his way, he is doing something wrong. He jumps the wrong reads, he is too far out of position, he is playing the wrong coverage, and then when he is even in position...he commits a penalty. That’s as bad as it can get. That the majority of plays you are involved in are deemed failures on your part. That’s where this idea that Sean Davis was the worst is mindnumbingly wrong. Sean ended up on the plus side of the MAJORITY of his plays, but it’s the negatives (and there were a bunch of negatives) that stick out because that’s the failure you know. 

He was a raw prospect who played multiple positions in college and was immediately asked to START and play multiple positions in the NFL at positions that don’t translate super well from college to the pros. There were going to be inconsistencies, he wasn’t going to be perfect. But the fact that he gets around plays and finished the vast majority means he isn’t overwhelmed like our friend Artie. It was his second year....he grew from year 1 and SEEMS to be growing again in a position More suited for his skills. 

Talent isn’t the issue, where he has struggled has been with consistency of things that are largely learned through experience (year 3 guy) and coaching. It’s why I believe that you see a young guy that’s constantly been around the football get more consistent in finishing the plays— I get working on a favorable extension while I still have the leverage. 

[VigilantZombie]

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

me too, but what if he went back to the browns now that they have Ward and are on their way to winning more? 

The Browns mismanaged and wasted Haden during his time there, even if he left Pittsburgh he wouldnt go back to Cleveland imo 

[3rivers]

3 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

The Browns mismanaged and wasted Haden during his time there, even if he left Pittsburgh he wouldnt go back to Cleveland imo 

lets hope, but colbert better keep him here and brin g in another legit CB1 and trade burns.

[VigilantZombie]

21 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Thank you for this well thought out and thouroughly detailed description of his failures. I see the error in my ways. 

Unless you have more than that (and there are plenty of details to describe his short comings) your selling me exactly what I’m telling you is the misleading portion of why the coverage of Sean Davis is that he was THAT awful. You see a missed tackle - that dude sucks. You see a ball caught while he is in the area (without knowing anything of the playcall and assignments) - that dude sucks. The Gronk example is my favorite because people think he gets lit up (he does, it’s freaking Gronk). And then when asked why they would put Davis singled up on Gronk....they all said he wasn’t supposed to be....they called for double coverage and he never got the help. But, nope. Sean Davis sucks. 

Saying he is laughably bad is, aside from being very PFF, an incorrect assessment of his actual year. Artie Burns is having a laughably bad season, and could be considered one of the worst, if not the worst at his position. Every time the ball is thrown his way, he is doing something wrong. He jumps the wrong reads, he is too far out of position, he is playing the wrong coverage, and then when he is even in position...he commits a penalty. That’s as bad as it can get. That the majority of plays you are involved in are deemed failures on your part. That’s where this idea that Sean Davis was the worst is mindnumbingly wrong. Sean ended up on the plus side of the MAJORITY of his plays, but it’s the negatives (and there were a bunch of negatives) that stick out because that’s the failure you know. 

He was a raw prospect who played multiple positions in college and was immediately asked to START and play multiple positions in the NFL at positions that don’t translate super well from college to the pros. There were going to be inconsistencies, he wasn’t going to be perfect. But the fact that he gets around plays and finished the vast majority means he isn’t overwhelmed like our friend Artie. It was his second year....he grew from year 1 and SEEMS to be growing again in a position More suited for his skills. 

Talent isn’t the issue, where he has struggled has been with consistency of things that are largely learned through experience (year 3 guy) and coaching. It’s why I believe that you see a young guy that’s constantly been around the football get more consistent in finishing the plays— I get working on a favorable extension while I still have the leverage. 

This logic is flawed, proof being Artie Burns. Sean Davis was terrible in coverage and tackling when he got here. Take off your blinders. He was not only raw his technique and angles were horrible and they didnt improve under Lake. With a change of Secomdary coach he has finally shown to potentially be the prospect we drafted him to be but he has a long way to go.

[VigilantZombie]

Just now, 3rivers said:

lets hope, but colbert better keep him here and brin g in another legit CB1 and trade burns.

Burns wont go anywhere imo. But he also wont get his starting job back.