How would you use the Le'Veon sized chunk of cap space that will free up this offseason?

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, wwhickok said:

I agree with War, but I don't feel he can stay  healthy.  He hasn't been able to his entire career really and this year, to me, proved it's not going to change.  Are we really suggesting he is worth what he is getting paid for 4-5 games a season?

nice signing colbert, sign a starter that could never stay healthy

 

2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Thats my whole point about him and Dupree.....they havent been playing at a high level long enough to warrant receiving long term contracts...IMO, at least.     

They have never played at a high level , or have they? I was disappointed when colbert gave dupree the 5th year option, and still don't think he deserves it despite being a bit better (than terrible for the most part over 4 years) . This we will observe over the closing weeks of this season, but unlike many here,  having a few good games this season doesn't convince me that's for sure because he was NOT good for most of the other 3 seasons I am more skeptical and look into why he had a good game, and from what I have seen, he hasn't played well vs legit starting OL .  With Burns wasting a roster spot , we aren't able to verify that Adeyini could replace dupree for example, so artie is getting in the way yet still. An no to Adams possibly being the player that could step up at OLB 

As for Davis, I am waiting to see how he improves , if he can generate TO's, that's a start after better tackling of course.  As long as Davis doesn't have to defend burns and NKMitchell, he appears decent. Give it time, but if they make a legit UFA signing, it won't hurt my feelings that's for sure. 

[43M]

10 hours ago, 3rivers said:

nice signing colbert, sign a starter that could never stay healthy

 

They have never played at a high level , or have they? I was disappointed when colbert gave dupree the 5th year option, and still don't think he deserves it despite being a bit better (than terrible for the most part over 4 years) . This we will observe over the closing weeks of this season, but unlike many here,  having a few good games this season doesn't convince me that's for sure because he was NOT good for most of the other 3 seasons I am more skeptical and look into why he had a good game, and from what I have seen, he hasn't played well vs legit starting OL .  With Burns wasting a roster spot , we aren't able to verify that Adeyini could replace dupree for example, so artie is getting in the way yet still. An no to Adams possibly being the player that could step up at OLB 

As for Davis, I am waiting to see how he improves , if he can generate TO's, that's a start after better tackling of course.  As long as Davis doesn't have to defend burns and NKMitchell, he appears decent. Give it time, but if they make a legit UFA signing, it won't hurt my feelings that's for sure. 

When I say "high level", I just mean solid starter level....which I would settle for from them.    Over the last two months, they have played at that level, but I also think defensive adjustments have helped them a good bit.    The question is...are the defensive adjustments using them more to their strengths that will make them more successful long term, or are the defensive adjustments just temporarily masking their deficiencies and its only a matter of time before teams readjust and expose them?

Nothing would please me more than for Davis and Dupree (and Burns) to become quality starters, but Im sure as hell not sold on them yet.....and I wont be sold on them this season at all.   Im going to need to see it next year too. 

Only type of extension Id be okay with is a short term extension for Dupree that lowers his cap hit in 2019, isnt longer than 3 years, and his guaranteed money makes it easy to cut him after 2020 if he isnt play well.    Unfortunately, I could see us doing something like giving him a 5 year/$45 mil/$30m guaranteed...and have it blow up in our face.    

[3rivers]

6 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Nothing would please me more than for Davis and Dupree (and Burns) to become quality starters, but Im sure as hell not sold on them yet.....and I wont be sold on them this season at all.   Im going to need to see it next year too. 

Only type of extension Id be okay with is a short term extension for Dupree that lowers his cap hit in 2019, isnt longer than 3 years, and his guaranteed money makes it easy to cut him after 2020 if he isnt play well.    Unfortunately, I could see us doing something like giving him a 5 year/$45 mil/$30m guaranteed...and have it blow up in our face.    

Davis I can see as being serviceable  and the same for dupree, that's it. Dupree would be better off in a different scheme, as someone pointed out wide 9. Burns is done and has been since the start of this season. 3rd year in the league and done, shouldn't be on a roster. I had a thread about Burns and Dupree being replaced by midseason, and Burns never survived and Dupree has made some noise. Like the effort dupree has shown and the gradual improvement  is also a positive. Too bad it's been 4 years but some of that could be coaching as well. 

As for the contracts , if a player has the 5th year option, doesn't the team have to give the player that 1 year deal if they are on the roster?  Until I see dupree defeat some legit OT's, I don't want a long term deal at all, even at a lower price than the 5th year option price. A starter on a respectable D needs to be able to defeat legit OT's , not just scrubs.  And by that I mean in the 3-4 second range, not garbage coverage sacks of when the rest of the team forces the play in the direction of dupree.  This is where stats are deceiving, and how players get over drafted and then rob teams for a few years and maybe a few more years.  I wouldn't mind a rotation with Dupree, Watt and then someone else that is either  a proven vet or another player that shows promise. I thought Adeyini would get a chance but they have players like burns wasting a roster spot which right now bothers me more than anything about this team.  We never had a penalty in the panthers game until burns was allowed to play later in the game and he got a PI penalty that eventually became a TD.  That should be it for him but it isn't

[grubs10]

Yinz be wildin sometimes.  I will preface this by saying I'm not going to throw out numbers in terms of what to offer because I'm to lazy to look at the market rates or what guys got last year.  If the player is unwilling to agree to a reasonable contract then they don't get brought back as most of these players aren't negotiating from great positions of power in terms of their performance.

 

Sean Davis thoughts

It would be a worthwhile gamble to extend Sean Davis to an extension relative to his worth right now in my opinion.  2 years ago the Steeler's named him their rookie of the year (in what was initially thought of as a pleasantly surprising class with Burns, Sean Davis, and Hargrave all having respectively promising rookie campaigns).  He had a sophmore slump last year which is common in its own right, but to me the context shifts some of the blame from Sean, in my opinion, since his unit was being lead by Mike Mitch and playing next to Struggling corners outside of Haden.  Ultimately he will be responsible for his own success, but you would hate to throw the baby out with the bath water because the bath water smells like Mike Mitch.  In my opinion this is the calculated risk to take because your not gonna commit to Burns or Sensabaugh and its tough to realistically expect this team to adequately replace 3 secondary starters by next year (2 if Edmunds/Burnett can work out at the strong safety spot) to really capitalize on the next couple years.  Give Sean an extension worth a little bit more than what hes earned so far without over-committing long-term and point to last season as why he should take it.  I'd rather be stuck with the Sean Davis we have had up to this point a year or two longer, as opposed to having to give him big money when he takes the next step next year after we have presumably added more talent to our defense.  Its the old AB gamble where you pay a guy more than he has earned banking on the fact that he will continue to improve and you save a ton of money in the long run.  Its a gamble, but nothing will be forcing them to go overboard to get it done and Sean seems like the best candidate for a risk like this.  The most proven young player we have in our weakest component of the roster.  Its just not realistic to expect top tier performers at every position. 

My prognosis for Sean's career at this point is a Ryan Clark tier of safety.  Athletically he can cover ground and hes not afraid to hit.  Not a top tier cover guy or ball hawk but he should catch most of the easy ones and is quick to the ball.  Potentially a solid starter that is more valuable than his talent if you get him at the right price.  If he won't agree to that price then you go with the wait and see approach, but the player is risking much more by waiting than the team is by offering the extension early.

 

Bud Dupree thoughts

Bud is in a similar position to me but with less of a leg to stand on, and yet weirdly will have more negotiating power.  Point blank period, you draft a 34 OLB in the first round to rush the passer.  Ideally they can play the run and cover in our system, but the thought process behind that high of a pick has to be this guy will generate pressure by beating his matchup.  Bud just doesn't seem to concern himself with technique or counter moves, and almost always seems to try to beat his man around the edge, often times getting ridden too far past the quarterback.  I think Bud is pretty good at being strong at the point of attack in the run game and dropping into shallow zone coverages and I do think he shows hustle in playing through the whistle, but I have my doubts he ever becomes a pass rush threat that opposing teams really gameplan for.  He's a good athlete and doesn't give up on plays so he will get some sacks, and could feasibly put up decent sack numbers if the other guys in the front seven can get pressure forcing QBs to hold it too long or be pushed into him, but just not a guy that commands double teams.  Again that kind of player can offer more value than their talent because his price tag should not be that of a top tier pass rusher. 

My prognosis for Bud at this point in time, is an OLB that isn't a huge liability in any faze of the game but really relies on having talented players around him to put up serviceable sack numbers for the position.  The smartest teams know how to work the cap and find the areas where they can afford to pinch pennies on the roster based on the style, strengths, and weaknesses, of the rest of the roster/scheme.  The salary cap system simply doesn't allow for top notch performers at every position unless you are saturated with players that are underpaid for their performance and that's just not a sustainable  strategy.  I would be ok offering Bud average starting OLB money (if possible more along the lines of 43 olb money than average edge rusher money) but the problem is Bud is a first round pick and teams are generally willing to gamble on those types of guys if they haven't completely flamed out hoping that a new system/staff can unlock his potential.  I don't think Bud would be bad player to keep around with Watt, Heyward, and Tuitt being our primary pass rush talent, but his value might be inflated by the open market enough that he is not worth it.  I don't know what the cutoff line is but premium pass rushers that aren't a liability in the run game or in coverage are hard to get in free agency and banking on drafting one at the end of the first round that will be better is a crap shoot, especially in the immediate future.  I'm all for finding a better player for a cheap price at that position, but with this team currently as is, I'd rather spend more money on ILB next to Vince and keep Bud at the price of an edge rusher without premium pass rushing chops, than to spend premium money/picks on replacing Dupree and settling for another ILB that lacks the range to cover Vince's flaws. 

I'm fairly confident no one would ever say we need to lockdown Bud Dupree long term no matter the cost, but keeping a guy in the system who is young and has the capabilities to make minor improvements to his all around game is valuable at the right price.  Every fan out there thinks player x on their team is the worst in the league at their position, and sometimes its true, sometimes its somewhat of an exaggeration, and sometimes its that fan's exposure to player x's mistakes causing them to think "there can't be anyone out there worse than this guy" even though they don't have near the information and perspective to be right.  I'm not exactly sure how Bud would rate in terms of being able to do what he is asked on a play-to-play basis compared to others at his position, but I do think he is worth low tier starter money if we can keep him for that.  If we can bring back Bud without giving him more making him one of our higher paid starters for another two or three years I think that would be a good move.  If we get to the point where we have a deal on the table to bring in someone better that works with how they want to allocate their resources on the defensive side then I would be happy to see Bud go, but I think it will be easier said than done to get someone to replace Bud that is guaranteed to perform better next year.

 

Artie Burns thoughts

Burns I see no reason to cut.  I understand that if he wasn't a top pick he would be gone by now, but the fact of the matter is he was a top pick and he has some physical tools.  If he doesn't make it out of camp because we have enough better players, so be it, but doing it preemptively makes no sense to me when hes still on an end of the first round rookie contract. The kid is 23 years old and even though its not nearly enough to warrant anything being handed to him and hes shown way more on the negative side, he has shown some glimpses at times in years one and two.  He probably never really contributes to this team again, but when I watch Burns play i see a lack of confidence and a lack of understanding of where everyone else is on the field causing him to second guess himself and grab or just straight up blow assignments.  I'm not in the meeting rooms and its very likely that this is on Burns being immature and not working hard enough during the week, but the steelers-colored glasses in me doesn't want to cut bait yet.  These dudes are human and I can understand a 23 year old would have trouble getting his confidence back when hes one of the most hated players by the fan base and has been benched several times already.  Not absolving Burns of blame, as ultimately it is his responsibility to correct the path he is on now, but I can't help but have empathy for the man as lack of confidence can drastically affect anyone's job performance.  23-24 is such a crazy age in a persons life and any number of things can change a persons life or trajectory.  I refuse to believe with full certainty that the right new team mate or the right new coach couldn't spur some type of career rebirth, even if it is as a bottom of the roster special teamer.  I'm of the opinion we need to honestly assess our defensive positional coaches this offseason, and I personally would let Tom Bradley go.  I know he's only been here one year, but it felt like your usual Steelers legacy hire when it happened even though he was at Penn State before and not the Steelers.  I just feel like we need to get away from that mindset and focus more on a coach's ideas and philosophies and less on someones coaching/playing resume from a time when the game was significantly different.  Offense has evolved drastically over the past 5-10 years and I think the personnel we have on the roster would respond better to a younger coach. 

Prognosis for Burns is probably to bounce around a couple teams because of the "potential" and then eventually be forgotten by the league.  Seems pretty clear now with hindsight he was overdrafted but its hard to know if that truly was the issue.  Its possible he lacks the mental fortitude and maturity to put in the work during the week making sure he understands his responsibilities and where/how he is expected to execute his role on gameday.  Its also possible he had the deck stacked against him from the jump when he was drafted by an organization that has repeatedly failed to develop players at his position and joined a secondary to start his career with veterans like Mike Mitchell and Ross Cockrell that were routinely making mental mistakes and out of position themselves.  Everyone expected Artie to be a project coming into the league and we brought him into a group where the coaching had underachieved and the veterans provided some bad examples to follow.  You can say, that's exactly why we shouldn't have drafted him, or its still his job to perform, obviously,  but to me the context is relevant and gives me hope that if the right thing in his environment changes, there's a chance he can still contribute.  There's a good chance we've already ruined him but there's not much cost to keeping him around another year just to make sure.  Ike had his struggles early on and even at his peak he was never a top corner, but if Burns can somehow get to Ike Taylor level that's not a bad number 2 corner until we find something better.