Chiefer Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 18 minutes ago, Buckweath said: Sure, let's not mention OL. It doesn't make any difference after all. They never want to give credit to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Just now, Chiefer said: They never want to give credit to it. I think its common knowledge the Saints have one of the best OLs in the league. It doesn't change the fact that Mahomes has a better supporting cast. Willing to bet Brees throws another 3-4 INTs the rest of the way, and probably sits out the final game and Mahomes wins anyways but right now Brees is the leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: It doesn't change the fact that Mahomes has a better supporting cast. I think it's pretty even. Mahomes has better weapons but Brees has the advantage in the ground game and offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Just now, SmittyBacall said: I think it's pretty even. Mahomes has better weapons but Brees has the advantage in the ground game and offensive line. What do you think benefits a QB more? I think hitting a guy on a slant and having him house it 70 yards would be better for a guys stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: I think its common knowledge the Saints have one of the best OLs in the league. It doesn't change the fact that Mahomes has a better supporting cast. Willing to bet Brees throws another 3-4 INTs the rest of the way, and probably sits out the final game and Mahomes wins anyways but right now Brees is the leader. Better supporting cast? Not sure where I'm seeing that one. Kamara>Hunt Thomas>Hill Kelce>Watson Watkins>TreQuan Smith Sean Payton>Andy Reid Saints O Line>Chiefs O Line Saints Defense>Chiefs Defense No one to compare Mark Ingram to really on Chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 6 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: What do you think benefits a QB more? I think hitting a guy on a slant and having him house it 70 yards would be better for a guys stats. The ground game, probably; which ties into the offensive line. It benefits the passing game more than you seem to give it credit for. Not to mention the Saints defense is better than the Chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 27 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: I think its common knowledge the Saints have one of the best OLs in the league. It doesn't change the fact that Mahomes has a better supporting cast. Willing to bet Brees throws another 3-4 INTs the rest of the way, and probably sits out the final game and Mahomes wins anyways but right now Brees is the leader 27 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: I think its common knowledge the Saints have one of the best OLs n the league. It doesn't change the fact that Mahomes has a better supporting cast. Willing to bet Brees throws another 3-4 INTs the rest of the way, and probably sits out the final game and Mahomes wins anyways but right now Brees is the lea Does Mahomes really have a Better supporting cast? Saints OL>>>>>Chiefs OL Tyreek Hill > Michael Thomas Saints receiving Corp = Chiefs receiving Corp Travis Kelce >>> Saints TE Alvin Kamara/Mark Ingram>Kareem Hunt/Spencer Ware Saints D >>>>> Chiefs D Chiefs ST>Saints ST Payton=Reid Only way I see the Chiefs being that much better is we got Tyfreek and Kelce. They provide a lot, but MT is right there with Hill. I feel like the Saints have a better team than the Chiefs do. We're just the Mahomes show with some sick sidekicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStanRamFan Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: What do you think benefits a QB more? I think hitting a guy on a slant and having him house it 70 yards would be better for a guys stats. An offensive line that allows him to stand in the pocket and make throws. Was that serious? Andrew Luck would of traded TY Hilton in for an Oline 3 years ago before his career was derailed by injuries. Now he has a slightly above average O line and he looks back to rookie year form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, Chiefer said: Does Mahomes really have a Better supporting cast? Saints OL>>>>>Chiefs OL Tyreek Hill > Michael Thomas Saints receiving Corp = Chiefs receiving Corp Travis Kelce >>> Saints TE Alvin Kamara/Mark Ingram>Kareem Hunt/Spencer Ware Saints D >>>>> Chiefs D Chiefs ST>Saints ST Payton=Reid Only way I see the Chiefs being that much better is we got Tyfreek and Kelce. They provide a lot, but MT is right there with Hill. I feel like the Saints have a better team than the Chiefs do. We're just the Mahomes show with some sick sidekicks. The Saints receiving corps is not even close to Chiefs. Watkins and Conley >>>>> the UDFAs Brees is throwing to right now. The Chiefs OL is good, the Saints OL is great. Helps Brees with efficiency but has cost him a lot of red zone TDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 11 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: The ground game, probably; which ties into the offensive line. It benefits the passing game more than you seem to give it credit for. Not to mention the Saints defense is better than the Chiefs. Ground game helps open up some stuff for the passing game but has certainly cost Brees a lot of yardage/TDs which is Mahomes whole argument. Kamara and Ingram have combined for 15 rushing TDs. A lot of which have obviously come from the goal line. Give 7 of those to Brees and people aren't even having this discussion. Having a worse defense allows Mahomes to pass the entire game, so kind of a moot point and is a hindrance to Brees passing stats if anything. Mahomes has almost 40 more passing attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 46 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: I think its common knowledge the Saints have one of the best OLs in the league. It doesn't change the fact that Mahomes has a better supporting cast. Willing to bet Brees throws another 3-4 INTs the rest of the way, and probably sits out the final game and Mahomes wins anyways but right now Brees is the leader. If Brees finishes the season with 5-6 INTs then the award is going to Mahomes. I think Brees has to be under 4 INTs to finish with a 10-1 TD/INT ration or better to have serious contention. Also Brees won't be able to sit out the final game unless they are up a game on the Rams prior to the last game as they will want HFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: Ground game helps open up some stuff for the passing game but has certainly cost Brees a lot of yardage/TDs which is Mahomes whole argument. Kamara and Ingram have combined for 15 rushing TDs. A lot of which have obviously come from the goal line. Give 7 of those to Brees and people aren't even having this discussion. Having a worse defense allows Mahomes to pass the entire game, so kind of a moot point and is a hindrance to Brees passing stats if anything. Mahomes has almost 40 more passing attempts. Next time don't say "What do you think benefits a QB more? " It creates confusion. Say What do you think benefits a QB (BULK STATS ) more? Because there is literally no doubt that a great OL and Running game benefits a QB success more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 29 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: Kamara and Ingram have combined for 15 rushing TDs. A lot of which have obviously come from the goal line. Give 7 of those to Brees and people aren't even having this discussion. If you're going to give take those 7 goal line TDs away from Kamara/Ingram and give them to Brees you have to do the same for Hunt and Mahomes. It's a moot point. Those hypotheticals don't only go one way. 29 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: Ground game helps open up some stuff for the passing game but has certainly cost Brees a lot of yardage/TDs which is Mahomes whole argument. Taking away the Saints ground game and assuming Brees and the offense would be as (or more) productive is naive to say the least. They'd be much worse off as a whole, and it's pretty insulting to Kamara, Ingram, and the offensive line run blocking. It's all kind of irrelevant because the initial question was about supporting cast, not whats better for eithers stats. You asked what benefits a QB more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 7 hours ago, Raves said: 1. If you are comparing Mahomes to Big Ben, a more apt comparison for Goff would be Alex Smith. I've always had Brees much higher than Big Ben so the comparison isn't apt. As someone else mentioned maybe Matt Ryan would've been a better option than Alex Smith in that regard, which I think is fair, but in that case I would take Big Ben over Matt Ryan. 2. I still don't see the comparison besides both being able to run and have a big arm. Mahomes is a much better passer than Big Ben and it's not even close. I feel like Mahomes can make just about any throw you ask him too, I can't say I feel the same about Big Ben which is why I felt Aaron Rodgers was a better comparison, though obviously Mahomes is less accurate than Rodgers and more turnover prone. Both are able to make any throw you need them too and mobile enough to take advantage of defenses that give them the opportunity. 3. Brees doesn't have the arm strength of Tom and I think Goff has a better arm as well. I also think Brees is maybe a little better at offense control and more of a mental QB than Brady, but I think overall Goff and Brady's skill sets match-up very well. 5. I think Mahomes has more ability as a thrower than Goff and although he's had some turnover problems this year, most weren't just bad decisions like a QB like Stafford has had who I think has more ability as a thrower than Goff but isn't as good of a decision maker. Please tell me you’re joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted November 28, 2018 Author Share Posted November 28, 2018 43 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: The Saints receiving corps is not even close to Chiefs. Watkins and Conley >>>>> the UDFAs Brees is throwing to right now. The Chiefs OL is good, the Saints OL is great. Helps Brees with efficiency but has cost him a lot of red zone TDs. Eh Watkins is injured half the time amd os gonna be out for a while. Thats not worth anything. Conley is okay. Hes been recovering from a bad Achilles rupture. I think if he can build off of a good Rams game he can get rolling. Hes been solid and cold this season. We could replace him with a Saints JAG and i dont think id notice The Chiefs OL is injured and depleted. They were great to start the season at full strength, but have been allowing rushers through more frequently. Mahomes was already propping them up before with his pocket ability. So you agree that Brees supporting cast is better and costing him in some stats. At least im making headway somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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