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MVP Race


Chiefer

MVP  

243 members have voted

  1. 1. Who wins?

    • Patrick Mahomes
      117
    • Drew Brees
      80
    • Tom Brady
      10
    • Todd Gurley
      12
    • Jared Goff
      10
    • Matt Ryan
      2
    • Phillip Rivers
      9
    • Cam Newton
      3


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21 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

Which young QB under 27 would you take over Goff? 

Definitely take:

Mahomes

Maybe/Requires Conditions:

Wentz - If he gets back to his play from last year I think he's better than Goff, if not then Goff 100%.

Watson - I like his first 2 years better than Goffs first 2 years, right now I'd take Goff but if Watson takes a good step forward in his 3rd year I might take Watson over Goff.

 

That's it though and 2 of them required specific conditions to do so.

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1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

The Chiefs don't. I'm not moving the goal-posts. This is what you claimed:

You just admitted that if you literally take Goff out of the game, it hurts the Rams more. We already saw the Rams score 54 points against the third best team in football with Gurley barely in the game-plan due to an injury. That injury took Gurley out of the game. The Rams offense had no issues. The Broncos did the opposite. They let Gurley run wild and took Goff out. The Rams offense did have some issues.

There's absolutely no support for the claim that you have a better shot taking Gurley out of the game in order to force Goff to beat you with his arm. Yet, you just defended that silly take. Which makes my point for me.

They might be the 3rd best team overall, but their defense, specifically their pass defense, is the worst in the NFL.

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Just now, jrry32 said:

That's an utterly irrelevant point.

Not really.  If you talk about a QB putting up a ton of passing yards or a running back putting up a lot of rushing yards, taking the context of the defense they're playing against matters.  For example if you said Gurley ran for 90 yards, that would be much more impressive against the Saints or Bears who allow less than 80 rushign yards per game at 3.6 ypc than if you did it against the Falcons who are allowing 123 rushing yrds per game at 5.1 ypc.

Just like putting up good passing numbers against the Bears or Ravens is impressive considering how their defense perform against the pass.  Really just having a good offensive outing against the Bears or Ravens period shows how good a team is.

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1 minute ago, Raves said:

Not really.  If you talk about a QB putting up a ton of passing yards or a running back putting up a lot of rushing yards, taking the context of the defense they're playing against matters.  For example if you said Gurley ran for 90 yards, that would be much more impressive against the Saints or Bears who allow less than 80 rushign yards per game at 3.6 ypc than if you did it against the Falcons who are allowing 123 rushing yrds per game at 5.1 ypc.

Just like putting up good passing numbers against the Bears or Ravens is impressive considering how their defense perform against the pass.  Really just having a good offensive outing against the Bears or Ravens period shows how good a team is.

That's not even the topic of the conversation. And if it were, I'd point out that the Chiefs run defense is worse than their pass defense. We're discussing the myth that the strategy for beating the Rams is taking Gurley out of the game and making Goff beat you with his arm.(obviously, some don't believe it is a myth, which is the problem)

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4 minutes ago, Raves said:

Not really.  If you talk about a QB putting up a ton of passing yards or a running back putting up a lot of rushing yards, taking the context of the defense they're playing against matters.  For example if you said Gurley ran for 90 yards, that would be much more impressive against the Saints or Bears who allow less than 80 rushign yards per game at 3.6 ypc than if you did it against the Falcons who are allowing 123 rushing yrds per game at 5.1 ypc.

Just like putting up good passing numbers against the Bears or Ravens is impressive considering how their defense perform against the pass.  Really just having a good offensive outing against the Bears or Ravens period shows how good a team is.

Yea, but those are just single games.  The Bengals scored over 30 on the Ravens this season, that's not very telling because you would think the Bengals have an amazing offense based on that game.

The thing that makes someone great is putting up great production consistently, no matter who you play.

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1 minute ago, showtime said:

Yea, but those are just single games.  The Bengals scored over 30 on the Ravens this season, that's not very telling because you would think the Bengals have an amazing offense based on that game.

The thing that makes someone great is putting up great production consistently, no matter who you play.

Well he was using single game examples of why trying this strategy didn't work etc, I was simply pointing out that within the microcosm of those games, how you perform against those teams is also dependent on the defense that team has.  The Bears and Ravens overall for example have great defenses, sure they had a few slip-ups here and there, every team does, but overall they are good overall defenses.

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

That's not even the topic of the conversation. And if it were, I'd point out that the Chiefs run defense is worse than their pass defense. We're discussing the myth that the strategy for beating the Rams is taking Gurley out of the game and making Goff beat you with his arm.(obviously, some don't believe it is a myth, which is the problem)

It is the conversation when you bring up how specific teams shut down a player or a player didn't have impact to point out how great the other player was but not take into account the defenses weaknesses.  The way to beat the Rams is to make a few stops and don't turn the ball over.  Stopping Gurley or Goff often means opening up the other so don't focus on either but just look to play smart fundamental defense.  Make your tackles, don't give up stupid PI penalties, don't sell out for the run or the pass.  I would probably even consider a 3-3-5 defense against them if you have the DL to play it so that you can get a few more players in short to intermediate coverage but also come up to defend the run.

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10 minutes ago, Raves said:

It is the conversation when you bring up how specific teams shut down a player or a player didn't have impact to point out how great the other player was but not take into account the defenses weaknesses.  The way to beat the Rams is to make a few stops and don't turn the ball over.  Stopping Gurley or Goff often means opening up the other so don't focus on either but just look to play smart fundamental defense.  Make your tackles, don't give up stupid PI penalties, don't sell out for the run or the pass.  I would probably even consider a 3-3-5 defense against them if you have the DL to play it so that you can get a few more players in short to intermediate coverage but also come up to defend the run.

*Facepalm*

That. is. the. point.

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1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

*Facepalm*

That. is. the. point.

I'll admit though, I'd rather let Goff beat me if my team has an offense at all because then I will have more opportunities to match the Rams in scoring and just hope to get one more stop than the Rams.  With Gurley controlling the clock that severely limits my ability to score and makes every possession even more important for me to get points on.

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1 minute ago, Raves said:

I'll admit though, I'd rather let Goff beat me if my team has an offense at all because then I will have more opportunities to match the Rams in scoring and just hope to get one more stop than the Rams.  With Gurley controlling the clock that severely limits my ability to score and makes every possession even more important for me to get points on.

This worked for the Saints just fine when they played the Rams.

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2 minutes ago, Raves said:

I'll admit though, I'd rather let Goff beat me if my team has an offense at all because then I will have more opportunities to match the Rams in scoring and just hope to get one more stop than the Rams.  With Gurley controlling the clock that severely limits my ability to score and makes every possession even more important for me to get points on.

That's really not sound logic, but okay. You're making my point for me again. Nobody says, "I'd rather let Drew Brees beat me than Alvin Kamara." There's no way to argue that Goff gets the sort of credit and respect that Brees does.

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1 hour ago, Raves said:

Definitely take:

Mahomes

Maybe/Requires Conditions:

Wentz - If he gets back to his play from last year I think he's better than Goff, if not then Goff 100%.

Watson - I like his first 2 years better than Goffs first 2 years, right now I'd take Goff but if Watson takes a good step forward in his 3rd year I might take Watson over Goff.

 

That's it though and 2 of them required specific conditions to do so.

Would you take Roethlisberger over Brees? 

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