MVP Race

[Mid Iowa]

I was surprised to see this thread still going. I figured everybody would agree by now that Mahomes is the clear-cut winner. I'm not sure I would have said that four weeks ago, but I sure am now.

Brees had a great season right up until the Dallas game. After that, you could easily see that this is a very long season for a quarterback knocking on the door of 40 years old. I would challenge any quarterback at Brees's age to come even remotely close to what he's done this year, but that's not what this contest is about.

This is not a contest about endurance at 40, this is about what was accomplished this year, and what Mahomes has done is Simply Amazing.

[emaw1979]

8 hours ago, showtime said:

Just for the record, I don't get the argument regarding "If the Chiefs didn't have Patrick Mahomes they probably wouldn't have made the playoffs"... You can say that for any of the elite QB's in the league, though.  Without Drew Brees, the Saints would be significantly worse.  Without Tom Brady, the Patriots might have won 4 games if they were lucky.  To me, that shouldn't factor into the argument at all.

The reason Mahomes should win the award is because he has had by far the best season in the league and one of the greatest QB seasons ever recorded.

I think the Patriots make the playoffs because they made the playoffs with Matt Cassel when Brady went down before. I wouldn't doubt Belichick and McDaniels turning Hoyer into the next Matt Cassel in that situation.

I also think the Saints would be a playoff team as well. I'm a Bridgewater fan. He's done it before and the Saints have one of the best offensive lines, a top 10 defense, and good running backs. Sean Payton is a very good offensive mind. Sure, they would be worse, but they still would likely be a playoff team.

Rams may or may not be depending on your view of Goff and being a system QB. He was absolute garbage his first season then this coaching staff and scheme came in and he's a different QB. 

The Chargers aren't likely because of their backup primarily. I'm not a Rivers fan at all but I'm certainly not a Geno Smith fan.

The Seahawks likely aren't as well. Wilson is one of my favorite QBs in the NFL and if he had a higher volume of stats he'd likely be in the MVP race. 

Wentz was looking like he'd be the next elite QB before his injury. His team made the playoffs with their backup. 

I don't think the Colts make the playoffs, even though I like Brissett,  but they played a pudding soft schedule so who knows. 

[emaw1979]

4 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

I was surprised to see this thread still going. I figured everybody would agree by now that Mahomes is the clear-cut winner. I'm not sure I would have said that four weeks ago, but I sure am now.

Brees had a great season right up until the Dallas game. After that, you could easily see that this is a very long season for a quarterback knocking on the door of 40 years old. I would challenge any quarterback at Brees's age to come even remotely close to what he's done this year, but that's not what this contest is about.

This is not a contest about endurance at 40, this is about what was accomplished this year, and what Mahomes has done is Simply Amazing.

I don't think it was decided until the Chiefs locked up the #1 seed and Mahomes hit 50/5000. It probably also took Brees falling off the statistical cliff the last month of the season as well. Brees had a very good season but Mahomes season was just historic. I wouldn't be surprised if it's unanimous. 

[Shoeless]

It's going to Mahomes.

[Destructo Spin]

If the Chiefs didn't have Mahomes, they'd still have Alex Smith and they'd still go their usual 11-5 or so instead of 12-4.

Some people will rush to crap all over this and say I'm an idiot, but part of the problem with a quick-strike offense like the Chiefs have is it hangs your defense out to dry, leaves them on the field for inordinate amounts of time. In 2018 the Chiefs have one of the worst TOP figures in the league at under 29 minutes. In 2017, with almost the same defensive personnel they were middle of the pack....why? Because their TOP was over 30:30 per game. There's something to be said for ball control.

Am I saying this to badmouth Mahomes? Absolutely not. What I am saying is that you have to understand that Mahomes playing style comes with a price, and that price is you wind up playing some games that are a lot closer than they should be at the end because you're not possessing the ball for long enough. This was the major weakness of the GSOT Rams teams and it has been a major weakness of the Saints for about a decade, until they wised up and started running the ball more the last couple years.

So it's not real fair to say the Chiefs would be terrible without Mahomes....again odds are they would be a pretty good team just like they have been for the past 5-6 years now.

Mahomes is the MVP, no question in my mind, but this argument that the Chiefs would be hot trash without him just doesn't hold up.

 

[Bearerofnews]

4 minutes ago, Destructo Spin said:

If the Chiefs didn't have Mahomes, they'd still have Alex Smith and they'd still go their usual 11-5 or so instead of 12-4.

Some people will rush to crap all over this and say I'm an idiot, but part of the problem with a quick-strike offense like the Chiefs have is it hangs your defense out to dry, leaves them on the field for inordinate amounts of time. In 2018 the Chiefs have one of the worst TOP figures in the league at under 29 minutes. In 2017, with almost the same defensive personnel they were middle of the pack....why? Because their TOP was over 30:30 per game. There's something to be said for ball control.

Am I saying this to badmouth Mahomes? Absolutely not. What I am saying is that you have to understand that Mahomes playing style comes with a price, and that price is you wind up playing some games that are a lot closer than they should be at the end because you're not possessing the ball for long enough. So it's not real fair to say the Chiefs would be terrible without Mahomes....again odds are they would be a pretty good team just like they have been for the past 5-6 years now.

 

Becareful, because some KC fans will say they would be 3-13 without Mahomes in this thread. Then in a different thread where i tell them Chargers easily have more talent, more depth and are more balanced and the overall better team, they will tell me no and then bring up all their players and different so called great aspects of their team. Just all over the place.

In the words of daniel bryant.... FICKLE.

 

[emaw1979]

24 minutes ago, Destructo Spin said:

If the Chiefs didn't have Mahomes, they'd still have Alex Smith and they'd still go their usual 11-5 or so instead of 12-4.

Some people will rush to crap all over this and say I'm an idiot, but part of the problem with a quick-strike offense like the Chiefs have is it hangs your defense out to dry, leaves them on the field for inordinate amounts of time. In 2018 the Chiefs have one of the worst TOP figures in the league at under 29 minutes. In 2017, with almost the same defensive personnel they were middle of the pack....why? Because their TOP was over 30:30 per game. There's something to be said for ball control.

Am I saying this to badmouth Mahomes? Absolutely not. What I am saying is that you have to understand that Mahomes playing style comes with a price, and that price is you wind up playing some games that are a lot closer than they should be at the end because you're not possessing the ball for long enough. This was the major weakness of the GSOT Rams teams and it has been a major weakness of the Saints for about a decade, until they wised up and started running the ball more the last couple years.

So it's not real fair to say the Chiefs would be terrible without Mahomes....again odds are they would be a pretty good team just like they have been for the past 5-6 years now.

Mahomes is the MVP, no question in my mind, but this argument that the Chiefs would be hot trash without him just doesn't hold up.

 

2018, the Chiefs time of possession per drive was 2:51. Last year with Alex Smith it was 2:52. The reason the Chiefs have one of the worst TOP is because of their defense. They can't get off the field and teams are running it to keep the offense off the field and because the Chiefs are horrible against the run.

 

[emaw1979]

27 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

Becareful, because some KC fans will say they would be 3-13 without Mahomes in this thread. Then in a different thread where i tell them Chargers easily have more talent, more depth and are more balanced and the overall better team, they will tell me no and then bring up all their players and different so called great aspects of their team. Just all over the place.

In the words of daniel bryant.... FICKLE.

 

Because games aren't won and lost on lineups. Especially in this series. The Chargers have had a better roster than KC for several years overall but still haven't been able to beat KC. 

 

[Bearerofnews]

20 minutes ago, emaw1979 said:

Because games aren't won and lost on lineups. Especially in this series. The Chargers have had a better roster than KC for several years overall but still haven't been able to beat KC. 

 

Reid vs Mccoy is no match. But Reid vs Lynn is less lopsided and its shown this year in the series.

[Edge]

I doubt we would be 12-4 with Smith.

Obviously it makes sense to say that due to our fast scoring Offense our defense is forced to play more often. Therefore they are giving up more points per game. My feeling would have suggested that we spend more time on offense with Smith than with Mahomes so i'm surprised to see that it's actually not true.

I'd say there were a lot of games this year were i'm not sure that Alex would have won them all. The first Chargers game, the Broncos games, the Ravens and the Steelers game. We won't lose all of those games but expect us to lose 2 or 3 of those games and suddenly we're an 10-6/9-7 team that could have lost out of a wildcard place especially if the Steelers would have beaten us.

Also it's tough to speculate on records because one thing has become pretty clear this season. Mahomes has a unique ability to buy time and create plays out of nothing. There were so many 3rd down conversions he saved our *** and kept the drive alive that Alex Smith wouldn't have been able to successfully convert into 1st downs. Think of the Ravens game and his pass on 4th & 9 to Tyreek. No way Alex escapes the pocket and throws that pass off balance. His ability to improvise is Rodgers-esque. Maybe Smith wins games Mahomes didn't won but honestly i can't think of a game were Mahomes cost us the game. You can argue about the Rams game but who knows how this game turns out with Smith. Not that high scoring but nobody knows who what have won that game if there weren't the 5 turnovers(actually 4 since the last one don't really count as a hail mary attempt) and 6 TDs by Mahomes. Smith doesn't make that many turnovers but neither he throws 6 TDs.

Whatever i think it's a longshot to say we would have finished 12-4 or 11-5. Mahomes did to much to save our ***** in almost every game with unbelievable plays.

Edit: It's not allowed to say a.ss or a.sses?

[Nabbs4u]

3 minutes ago, Edge said:

I doubt we would be 12-4 with Smith.

Not a chance in hell with Alex Smith and that Defense the Chiefs would  be 12-4. 

Zero! Just saying. 

[SBLIII]

4 hours ago, Edge said:

I doubt we would be 12-4 with Smith.

Obviously it makes sense to say that due to our fast scoring Offense our defense is forced to play more often. Therefore they are giving up more points per game. My feeling would have suggested that we spend more time on offense with Smith than with Mahomes so i'm surprised to see that it's actually not true.

I'd say there were a lot of games this year were i'm not sure that Alex would have won them all. The first Chargers game, the Broncos games, the Ravens and the Steelers game. We won't lose all of those games but expect us to lose 2 or 3 of those games and suddenly we're an 10-6/9-7 team that could have lost out of a wildcard place especially if the Steelers would have beaten us.

Also it's tough to speculate on records because one thing has become pretty clear this season. Mahomes has a unique ability to buy time and create plays out of nothing. There were so many 3rd down conversions he saved our *** and kept the drive alive that Alex Smith wouldn't have been able to successfully convert into 1st downs. Think of the Ravens game and his pass on 4th & 9 to Tyreek. No way Alex escapes the pocket and throws that pass off balance. His ability to improvise is Rodgers-esque. Maybe Smith wins games Mahomes didn't won but honestly i can't think of a game were Mahomes cost us the game. You can argue about the Rams game but who knows how this game turns out with Smith. Not that high scoring but nobody knows who what have won that game if there weren't the 5 turnovers(actually 4 since the last one don't really count as a hail mary attempt) and 6 TDs by Mahomes. Smith doesn't make that many turnovers but neither he throws 6 TDs.

Whatever i think it's a longshot to say we would have finished 12-4 or 11-5. Mahomes did to much to save our ***** in almost every game with unbelievable plays.

Edit: It's not allowed to say a.ss or a.sses?

8-8 with Smith

[Buckweath]

I mostly agree with what you said but depends which Alex Smith you are getting. The one of last year would possibly have lead this team to something like 10-6. Smith was great, like too 5 QB play.

With the usual Alex Smith they would probably be more around 9-7 or 8-8. 

 

[showtime]

I posted this in the All-Pro thread, but the relevance to the MVP award is that the same people who voted Mahomes first team All-Pro are the same people who vote for MVP and the voting here was not close at all.

[lancerman]

45 voters picked Mahomes over Brees. So here’s the math, for Brees to win it 41 of Mahomes voters would all have to vote for another position. Then no 6 can vote for the same guy. So basically 8 no QB’s, plus Brees getting 5 and Mahomes getting 4 votes is the minimum that needs to happen. That means 10 people total would be voted on for MVP. 

Translation. I have the same chance of winning MVP as Drew Brees