Calvert28 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Lets try a third time: Little known facts: In the last 17 years there have been 164 QBs drafted from the second round on. The only "franchise" QBs in that group are: Lets try this a second time. Quote What evidence do you have that we wouldn't be able to spot and pick a franchise guy in the 1st or even 2nd round if he came along? I don't care what the case is for the rest of the league. As much as you wanna throw out there about us drafting so many pro bowlers. What evidence do you have that we can't scout QB's? Since McClay has been with us since like 2014 we have drafted 2 QB's, one with a moderate amount of success who has only regressed because of inept coaching but could still be a very capable backup. We are basically 1 for 1 with a 4th rounder who many pegged to the bottom of the draft or undrafted so we basically over spent for him and we are still waiting to see what develops with White. So again what evidence and don't bring up the rest of the league im asking about OUR team. Edited November 20, 2018 by Calvert28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Did you not follow along? They practically dont exist. It has nothing to do with how good we are at scouting. It has everything to do with you cant pick something that isnt there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, Matts4313 said: Did you not follow along? They practically dont exist. It has nothing to do with how good we are at scouting. It has everything to do with you cant pick something that isnt there. I follow but you obviously did not read. Quote What evidence do you have that we wouldn't be able to spot and pick a franchise guy in the 1st or even 2nd round if he came along? I mean Dak according to you has come along. Or does he not exist as a franchise guy now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Calvert28 said: I follow but you obviously did not read. I mean Dak according to you has come along. Or does he not exist as a franchise guy now? Are you twisting it so that it appears I am speaking in absolutes? In the realistic sense there will no be no QB that we "can spot and pick" because no, they do not "come along". Brady is unicorn. Dak an anomaly. BTW - I read what you said, I just thought my point was abundantly clear. It is extremely low percentage chance of finding a good QB outside of the top 5-10 picks. And I do not believe our front office has some magic 8 ball to find a QB in the later rounds. We wanted Lynch and Cooks over Dak, remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Are you twisting it so that it appears I am speaking in absolutes? In the realistic sense there will no be no QB that we "can spot and pick" because no, they do not "come along". Brady is unicorn. Dak an anomaly. BTW - I read what you said, I just thought my point was abundantly clear. It is extremely low percentage chance of finding a good QB outside of the top 5-10 picks. And I do not believe our front office has some magic 8 ball to find a QB in the later rounds. We wanted Lynch and Cooks over Dak, remember? Well duh franchise QB's in general are very uncommon. That does not mean a better QB cannot be found in the draft considering teams still managed to find a Russell Wilson (Cornerstone), a Dak, a Rodgers (Cornerstone), a Cousins, many concluded that both the Texans and Chiefs overspent by alot on both Mahomes and Watson who were considered border 1st rounders at best. Some thought Mahomes should have been a bottom 2nd rounder. That does not mean they are unheard of nor is it some game of luck. Sure we wanted both over Dak but we sure as hell didn't think enough to trade up for both not like we did Lawrence and we didn't overdraft on them like we did Dak or Frederick. Obviously when our scouting guys are raving about a prospect this FO has had enough sense to listen to what they have to say which I will give them. We have an eye for talent even if some coaches we have don't know how to use them. Remember when it was basically a done deal that if Wentz fell to us he was gonna be the pick? Edited November 20, 2018 by Calvert28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Calvert28 said: Well duh franchise QB's in general are very uncommon. That does not mean a better QB cannot be found in the draft considering teams still managed to find a Russell Wilson (Cornerstone), a Dak, a Rodgers (Cornerstone), a Cousins, many concluded that both the Texans and Chiefs overspent by alot on both Mahomes and Watson who were considered border 1st rounders at best. Some thought Mahomes should have been a bottom 2nd rounder. That does not mean they are unheard of nor is it some game of luck. Sure we wanted both over Dak but we sure as hell didn't think enough to trade up for both not like we did Lawrence and we didn't overdraft on them like we did Dak or Frederick. Obviously when our scouting guys are raving about a prospect this FO has had enough sense to listen to what they have to say which I will give them. We have an eye for talent even if some coaches we have don't know how to use them. Remember when it was basically a done deal that if Wentz fell to us he was gonna be the pick? Your argument boils down to "some people win the lotto, so buying a ticket isnt dumb". For every Wilson and Brees, there are 17 years and 162 QBs of Bryce Petty's. And I am not arrogant enough to think that our FO is going to magically find Wilson in the second round when there have been roughly 50-100 GMs/HCs during that time that have not been able to find one. (hint, its because they dont exist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Your argument boils down to "some people win the lotto, so buying a ticket isnt dumb". For every Wilson and Brees, there are 17 years and 162 QBs of Bryce Petty's. And I am not arrogant enough to think that our FO is going to magically find Wilson in the second round when there have been roughly 50-100 GMs/HCs during that time that have not been able to find one. (hint, its because they dont exist) Don't say you read when you don't. Quote Well duh franchise QB's in general are very uncommon. That does not mean a better QB cannot be found in the draft considering teams still managed to find a Russell Wilson (Cornerstone), a Dak, a Rodgers (Cornerstone), a Cousins, many concluded that both the Texans and Chiefs overspent by alot on both Mahomes and Watson who were considered border 1st rounders at best. Some thought Mahomes should have been a bottom 2nd rounder. That does not mean they are unheard of nor is it some game of luck. Sure we wanted both over Dak but we sure as hell didn't think enough to trade up for both not like we did Lawrence and we didn't overdraft on them like we did Dak or Frederick. Obviously when our scouting guys are raving about a prospect this FO has had enough sense to listen to what they have to say which I will give them. We have an eye for talent even if some coaches we have don't know how to use them. Remember when it was basically a done deal that if Wentz fell to us he was gonna be the pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Calvert28 said: Don't say you read when you don't. Actually that entire sentence was unclear to me. "That does not mean they (who?) are unheard of nor is it (what?) some game of luck" And aside, after I read your examples I rolled my eyes to back of my head. Brees and Wilson both dropped based on height alone. Rodgers was in contention for the #1 pick overall up until Smiths name was called. Then dropped due to happenstance. Mahomes and Watson were both highly rumored to go early in the draft, with Pat being *TRADED UP* for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvert28 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Actually that entire sentence was unclear to me. "That does not mean they (who?) are unheard of nor is it (what?) some game of luck" Are you serious right now? What do you think this conversation is about? Better QB's that's "who" and we are discussing drafting that's "what". Again you are not reading. 11 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: And aside, after I read your examples I rolled my eyes to back of my head. Brees and Wilson both dropped based on height alone. Rodgers was in contention for the #1 pick overall up until Smiths name was called. Then dropped due to happenstance. Mahomes and Watson were both highly rumored to go early in the draft, with Pat being *TRADED UP* for. What does height have to do with anything in this conversation? We were not debating why these guys dropped, we only debated whether a franchise guy could be found in later rounds and I brought up a fact that we have an eye for scouting great prospects in the early rounds. And if one of these guys could do wonders for our team someone we think we could take advantage of then our scouting guys would see them. Granted that argument is mute considering our HC and OC but that has no bearing on our ability to scout nor does the prospects height have anything to do with it nor anything that was or may be considered a con against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Calvert28 said: Lets try this a second time. I don't care what the case is for the rest of the league. As much as you wanna throw out there about us drafting so many pro bowlers. What evidence do you have that we can't scout QB's? Since McClay has been with us since like 2014 we have drafted 2 QB's, one with a moderate amount of success who has only regressed because of inept coaching but could still be a very capable backup. We are basically 1 for 1 with a 4th rounder who many pegged to the bottom of the draft or undrafted so we basically over spent for him and we are still waiting to see what develops with White. So again what evidence and don't bring up the rest of the league im asking about OUR team. They had Paxton Lynch rated the #12 overall prospect and very nearly traded up for him. If not for Oakland, they would have taken Connor Wood, who they had given a 2nd rd grade. Dak was basically an afterthought, who fell into their laps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, WizardHawk said: They had Paxton Lynch rated the #12 overall prospect and very nearly traded up for him. If not for Oakland, they would have taken Connor Wood, who they had given a 2nd rd grade. Dak was basically an afterthought, who fell into their laps. I'm not entirely convinced that Lynch would have been a bust with the 2016 OL, Zeke, and Dez. If we did the playaction roll out 20 passes a game thing like we did Dak. And Dak is averaging less than 200 yards a game. Are we sure other QBs are incapable of that? Edited November 20, 2018 by DaBoys 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 40 minutes ago, DaBoys said: I'm not entirely convinced that Lynch would have been a bust with the 2016 OL, Zeke, and Dez. If we did the playaction roll out 20 passes a game thing like we did Dak. And Dak is averaging less than 200 yards a game. Are we sure other QBs are incapable of that? Im not entirely convinced that Dak wouldnt be league MVP if he was playing for the chiefs. /s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 41 minutes ago, DaBoys said: I'm not entirely convinced that Lynch would have been a bust with the 2016 OL, Zeke, and Dez. If we did the playaction roll out 20 passes a game thing like we did Dak. And Dak is averaging less than 200 yards a game. Are we sure other QBs are incapable of that? Sure there is a long list of QB capable of 200 plus yards a game. But not going a season as a rookie with what three interceptions and already being in the top list of all time dallas qb’s running the ball a trait that fits well with who we are or also leading the league in QB rating as a rookie. Now will we see those numbers every again that can be debated this staff has been dreadful at building his skills The thing is I just can’t believe with the overall league track record of Drafted QB halving prolonged success that people think it will be a piece of cake to find a replacement ofbDak who I put in top 15. Then of course you expect this same development team that is failing with Dak to succeed with the next one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 The comment about the chiefs is another can of worms. I personally believe that Dak would be putting up big numbers at KC and Mahomes would be struggling worse with us then Dak is but what ever that’s a opinion that can’t be tested one way other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 11 hours ago, Matts4313 said: Did you not follow along? They practically dont exist. It has nothing to do with how good we are at scouting. It has everything to do with you cant pick something that isnt there. On a side note, this is what I keep trying to explain to the people who argue for Jimmy staying in Dallas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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