matt79511 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, DaBoys said: There is tape all over the internet and posted in here this offseason, of Dez being open last year and not getting the ball, but your revisionist history is fun. And he did a great job of dropping passes on those rare occasions, and getting tackled by the first guy when he didn't. He played like 900 snaps and you're taking 25 at the most as gospel. He got benched for Brice Butler in Week 17. Teams would not have gotten away with bracketing Beasley on 3rd down every time last year were they at all afraid of Dez one on one on the outside. The WR corps is clearly in a much better place now than they were this time last year. Even 14 points against the Titans is more than we could muster Weeks 10-12 of last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, DaBoys said: How many times was Dez undersold? Again he was a different type of WR than Cooper. Not as much separation but better hands. Cooper ran a fly route up the sideline Sunday and Dak over threw him by about 5 yards. Cooper just kinda looked at it. I couldn't help but think Dez would have dove for that. Back in the day anyway. I'll say again, I prefer Cooper to 30 year old injured Dez, but the team isn't better with 24 year old Cooper, than they were with 27 and 28 year old Dez. Dak the passer is the problem. I don't disagree that Dak is a well below average NFL passer, but to put Dez's decline solely on him obscures that there is almost no margin for error when throwing to him. There's a reason that no one wanted to bother with him besides the team with the most accurate QB ever. You need Brees-level accuracy to make use of what's left of Dez. I do agree with the bolded. He was a fantastic and highly enjoyable player in his heyday. I just don't see how anyone can watch the second half of last year and see 2012-14 Dez. That guy's long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, matt79511 said: I don't disagree that Dak is a well below average NFL passer, but to put Dez's decline solely on him obscures that there is almost no margin for error when throwing to him. There's a reason that no one wanted to bother with him besides the team with the most accurate QB ever. You need Brees-level accuracy to make use of what's left of Dez. I do agree with the bolded. He was a fantastic and highly enjoyable player in his heyday. I just don't see how anyone can watch the second half of last year and see 2012-14 Dez. That guy's long gone. Dez Bryant is the all-time receiving TD leader for the Dallas Cowboys, and was virtually unstoppable in his prime. Setting the bar for Amari at that level seems silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, matt79511 said: And he did a great job of dropping passes on those rare occasions, and getting tackled by the first guy when he didn't. He had over 800 yards. He didn't drop everything. Let's see Cooper hit that mark in this offense. Here is video of him being tackled by the first guy: 8 minutes ago, matt79511 said: He played like 900 snaps and you're taking 25 at the most as gospel. He got benched for Brice Butler in Week 17. If you aren't going to watch the links I post then don't comment on them. There is 65 targets to Dez in the video. Not 25 random snaps. And lol week 17? We played a lot of backups. Beasley got benched for Switzer too, let's make a big deal about that. 13 minutes ago, matt79511 said: Teams would not have gotten away with bracketing Beasley on 3rd down every time last year were they at all afraid of Dez one on one on the outside. The WR corps is clearly in a much better place now than they were this time last year. Even 14 points against the Titans is more than we could muster Weeks 10-12 of last year. Teams are still bracketing Beasley though. We saw it on Sunday. Cooper was in single man coverage all day. All damn day. Collinsworth kept saying well he has single man again if he wants it. So now Cooper is light years above what Dez ever was and he's beating triple coverage every time. Let the legends begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) Dez 2017: 132 targets: 53 uncatchable balls 69 catches 10 drops A lot of drops, but certainly uncharacteristic Edited November 13, 2018 by DaBoys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 16 minutes ago, matt79511 said: There's a reason that no one wanted to bother with him besides the team with the most accurate QB ever. You need Brees-level accuracy to make use of what's left of Dez. I mean the Ravens wanted him. They have Flacco and Lamar. The Browns had an open offer for him with Tyrod and Baker. And those are just the offers we know about. It sucks for Dez that he got hurt, but it sucks for me too. I was really excited to see Brees with Dez. Brees can make guys like Robert Meachem and Willie Snead look good. Dez was going to kill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Here are the last 15 1st round picks at WR, since Amari's draft in 2015. DJ Moore Calvin Ridley Corey Davis Mike Williams John Ross Corey Coleman Will Fuller Josh Doctson Laquon Treadwell Amari Cooper Kevin White DeVante Parker Nelson Agholor Breshad Perriman Phillip Dorsett From Amari's impact already, it's clear, beyond a doubt, that he was "worth" a 1st round pick. Even a top-10 pick is unlikely to result in a WR as talented. The only debate remaining is whether we could have negotiated tougher with Oakland who seemed to be having a firesale, or whether we could have better used that first round pick on a different position (quarterback?) in the actual draft. But had we tried that, maybe Amari is an Eagle right now, and maybe our season is officially in the dumpster after a loss last night. No, Amari doesn't fix all of our problems, but clearly he's a huge upgrade at arguably our worst position group. That's exactly what you want from a 1st rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: Here are the last 15 1st round picks at WR, since Amari's draft in 2015. DJ Moore Calvin Ridley Corey Davis Mike Williams John Ross Corey Coleman Will Fuller Josh Doctson Laquon Treadwell Amari Cooper Kevin White DeVante Parker Nelson Agholor Breshad Perriman Phillip Dorsett From Amari's impact already, it's clear, beyond a doubt, that he was "worth" a 1st round pick. Even a top-10 pick is unlikely to result in a WR as talented. The only debate remaining is whether we could have negotiated tougher with Oakland who seemed to be having a firesale, or whether we could have better used that first round pick on a different position (quarterback?) in the actual draft. But had we tried that, maybe Amari is an Eagle right now, and maybe our season is officially in the dumpster after a loss last night. No, Amari doesn't fix all of our problems, but clearly he's a huge upgrade at arguably our worst position group. That's exactly what you want from a 1st rounder. I think Cooper is just as talented or more than all those guys. And yes you can argue that they should have negotiated better/harder, but I think the real difference in trading your top 15 pick for a WR and drafting a WR in the top 15 is $$$. Clearly Cooper is worth being drafted in the first based on your list, but we didn't draft him. To me, there is a pretty big difference between drafting a guy in the first and trading a first for a guy who needs a new contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextyearfordaboyz Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, DaBoys said: I think Cooper is just as talented or more than all those guys. And yes you can argue that they should have negotiated better/harder, but I think the real difference in trading your top 15 pick for a WR and drafting a WR in the top 15 is $$$. Clearly Cooper is worth being drafted in the first based on your list, but we didn't draft him. To me, there is a pretty big difference between drafting a guy in the first and trading a first for a guy who needs a new contract. Money, but also less risk and more immediate production. He does/will cost more, that is a fair point. But we seem to be in good position with the cap to do what we want and need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, Nextyearfordaboyz said: Money, but also less risk and more immediate production. He does/will cost more, that is a fair point. But we seem to be in good position with the cap to do what we want and need. He costs more but it is less risk. Touche. He is a somewhat proven commodity. Actually his 1,000 yard seasons with Carr at QB are starting to look really impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt79511 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 42 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Dez 2017: 132 targets: 53 uncatchable balls 69 catches 10 drops A lot of drops, but certainly uncharacteristic You know, I see 53 “uncatchable balls” and I think that’s such a ridiculous stat. You look back at most of those incompletions and he just wasn’t open, often not even with an accurate throw. And a few of those “good plays” by the defense were 50-50 balls that a younger Dez might’ve come down with (the one in the end zone vs Hayward in particular). There were bad balls by Dak in there, sure. But it’s not like he threw 53 balls into the stands. Empirically, Dez was one of the worst players in the league last year on a per target basis, and however much blame you want to assign to whatever party, he’s gone now for that reason as much as for his behavior becoming tiresome. I too was looking forward to seeing him with a surgeon level QB again, but it wasn’t meant to be. Ultimately, as tragic a career as any recent Cowboy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPJ Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 8 hours ago, matt79511 said: You know, I see 53 “uncatchable balls” and I think that’s such a ridiculous stat. You look back at most of those incompletions and he just wasn’t open, often not even with an accurate throw. And a few of those “good plays” by the defense were 50-50 balls that a younger Dez might’ve come down with (the one in the end zone vs Hayward in particular). There were bad balls by Dak in there, sure. But it’s not like he threw 53 balls into the stands. Empirically, Dez was one of the worst players in the league last year on a per target basis, and however much blame you want to assign to whatever party, he’s gone now for that reason as much as for his behavior becoming tiresome. I too was looking forward to seeing him with a surgeon level QB again, but it wasn’t meant to be. Ultimately, as tragic a career as any recent Cowboy. I agree Dez had a down year but I do believe it seemed worse by having Dak as his QB. Also if the rumours are true and he was never healthy could he have been better? I was ecstatic to see him play with the Saints. I think Brees is a great QB matchup for him and the long time away should have had him healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2018/11/13/18088548/the-amari-effect-did-the-cowboys-find-themselves-another-first-round-star 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVScout Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 15 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2018/11/13/18088548/the-amari-effect-did-the-cowboys-find-themselves-another-first-round-star That is one of the best articles I have ever read. Garrett has been in charge of 8 drafts and has already picked 4 all pros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 21 minutes ago, TVScout said: That is one of the best articles I have ever read. Garrett has been in charge of 8 drafts and has already picked 4 all pros. His roster building is one of the strongest reasons to keep him. I'd love to have him in the F.O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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