Trubisky vs Watson, long term

[Superman(DH23)]

2 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Go on.

Watson has 1 more game played this season.  Watson has 400 more yards and 1 more passing TD, they have the same number of INTs, Watsons rating is 4 points higher.  Statistically they are right at the same place right now.  If you want to go advanced stats (which I specifically hate this stat, but it is what it is) Trubisky has a significantly higher QBR at 70.2, vs Watson's 60.8.  

[Superman(DH23)]

2 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Question: Hypothetically, would you trade Trubisky for Mahomes right now if you could?

No, I wouldnt.  Its unknown quantity what he looks like when hes not surrounded by the best set of weapons in the NFL and paired with maybe the most QB friendly HC of all time.  We actually do know what Tru looks like surrounded by 0 weapons and in an archaic offense that is one of the worst called ever. And that's at least respectable.  Trubisky was in a worse situation last year than Darnold is now, and looked a hell of a lot better than Darnold does.

[MookieMonstah]

3 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

No, I wouldnt.  Its unknown quantity what he looks like when hes not surrounded by the best set of weapons in the NFL and paired with maybe the most QB friendly HC of all time.  We actually do know what Tru looks like surrounded by 0 weapons and in an archaic offense that is one of the worst called ever. And that's at least respectable.  Trubisky was in a worse situation last year than Darnold is now, and looked a hell of a lot better than Darnold does.

[SmittyBacall]

1 minute ago, Superman(DH23) said:

No, I wouldnt.  Its unknown quantity what he looks like when hes not surrounded by the best set of weapons in the NFL and paired with maybe the most QB friendly HC of all time.  We actually do know what Tru looks like surrounded by 0 weapons and in an archaic offense that is one of the worst called ever.

So are you implying that Mahomes and Trubisky are equal talents and the discrepancy in their statistical outputs is based on their respective offensive situations? Do you feel as though Trubisky could be an NFL MVP right now under Mahomes circumstances?

And to be honest I don't buy this whole notion of Trubisky having zero weapons. Is Cohen not a weapon? Was Howard not not claimed to be - by most Bears fan - a top 5-10 running back in the NFL last season? Is Trey Burton not a viable interior mismatch receiving option? What about Allen Robinson or Taylor Gabriel? Their not all-pros but they're certainly not bum options. 

[SmittyBacall]

14 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Watson has 1 more game played this season.  Watson has 400 more yards and 1 more passing TD, they have the same number of INTs, Watsons rating is 4 points higher.  Statistically they are right at the same place right now.  If you want to go advanced stats (which I specifically hate this stat, but it is what it is) Trubisky has a significantly higher QBR at 70.2, vs Watson's 60.8.  

Stats are all fine and dandy but they portray only a segment of a players ability. Do you think Trubisky is superior to Watson as a quarterback from watching them play, statlines aside?

[Superman(DH23)]

4 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

Patrick Mahomes and Mitchell Trubisky are currently in the same offense (for the most part) however, Mahomes has 25 games of being coached in the offense, Trubisky has 8.  If you think that if Mahomes had spent last year being coached by John Fox and Dowell Loggains and would be the same player he is today you are out of your mind.  Btw statistically the difference between the 2 is the first 3 games of the season where mahomes had 13 TDs while Trubisky had 2, since then Mahomes has 16 TDs, to Trubisky's 15, and Mahomes has played 1 more game.  Mahomes has thrown 7 Ints in that same time to Trubisky's 4.  So basically since Trubisky has been comfortable in the offense.  

 

[Superman(DH23)]

6 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

So are you implying that Mahomes and Trubisky are equal talents and the discrepancy in their statistical outputs is based on their respective offensive situations? Do you feel as though Trubisky could be an NFL MVP right now under Mahomes circumstances?

And to be honest I don't buy this whole notion of Trubisky having zero weapons. Is Cohen not a weapon? Was Howard not not claimed to be - by most Bears fan - a top 5-10 running back in the NFL last season? Is Trey Burton not a viable interior mismatch receiving option? What about Allen Robinson or Taylor Gabriel? Their not all-pros but they're certainly not bum options. 

I'm not saying Tru has 0 weapons now, I'm saying last year when his #1 wr was kendall Wright.  When the Bears were rotating guys in as #2s who had been on the street the week prior.  When his OC was pulling Tarik Cohen out in game on the line situations because he was drawing double teams.  Yes, Tru has lots of weapons this year, hence why he is on pace to have the best season of any QB in the history of the franchise.

[Superman(DH23)]

8 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

Stats are all fine and dandy but they portray only a segment of a players ability. Do you think Trubisky is superior to Watson as a quarterback from watching them play, statlines aside?

I've already said I have a difficult time making a judgement between the 2, they are remarkably similar.  It's a toss up

[Danger]

Watson and it's not even close.

[SmittyBacall]

1 minute ago, Superman(DH23) said:

I'm not saying Tru has 0 weapons now, I'm saying last year when his #1 wr was kendall Wright.  When the Bears were rotating guys in as #2s who had been on the street the week prior.  When his OC was pulling Tarik Cohen out in game on the line situations because he was drawing double teams.  Yes, Tru has lots of weapons this year, hence why he is on pace to have the best season of any QB in the history of the franchise.

You didn't answer this: 

1 minute ago, Superman(DH23) said:

So are you implying that Mahomes and Trubisky are equal talents and the discrepancy in their statistical outputs is based on their respective offensive situations? Do you feel as though Trubisky could be an NFL MVP right now under Mahomes circumstances?

 

[Superman(DH23)]

1 minute ago, SmittyBacall said:

You didn't answer this: 

 

It's impossible to know, but considering the performance has been similar since week 4 of the season I'd say...maybe.  

[JAF-N72EX]

@SmittyBacall @Danger

Since you two have such strong opinions on this and the comparison is not even close, I assume you have watched both QB's closely. 

So in detail, what are both QB's strengths and weakness? What does one offer that the other does not?  

[SmittyBacall]

47 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

It's impossible to know, but considering the performance has been similar since week 4 of the season I'd say...maybe.  

I think it's admirable to remain such a level of optimism, but absolutely foolish justification for comparing the two. It's flawed logic to play the enigma card. "We just don't know because it hasn't happened and never will, so maybe?". Why does this site even exist? Why make these comparisons if that answer can literally be applied to every comparison.  To act as though Mahomes potentially fluke/anomaly of a MVP season and Trubisky's undeveloped potential puts them on the same tier is awfully convenient coming from a Bears fan (to say the least).

I understand where you're coming from. There is no short-term disappoint in waiting out their careers. There's hope in that. But it's not objective and it's insanely biased.If the situations were reversed and you were a Chiefs fan there is no way in hell you would trade Mahomes for Trubisky. Not in a million years. Why? Because you'd be a fool to. And you wouldn't apply the same baseless and convenient "we don't know yet" narrative to the argument.

 

 

[SmittyBacall]

15 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

@SmittyBacall @Danger

Since you two have such strong opinions on this and the comparison is not even close, I assume you have watched both QB's closely. 

So in detail, what are both QB's strengths and weakness? What does one offer that the other does not?  

I'll give you more detail when I get home.

[Superman(DH23)]

36 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

I think it's admirable to remain such a level of optimism, but absolutely foolish justification for comparing the two. It's flawed logic to play the enigma card. "We just don't know because it hasn't happened and never will, so maybe?". Why does this site even exist? Why make these comparisons if that answer can literally be applied to every comparison.  To act as though Mahomes potentially fluke/anomaly of a MVP season and Trubisky's undeveloped potential puts them on the same tier is awfully convenient coming from a Bears fan (to say the least).

I understand where you're coming from. There is no short-term disappoint in waiting out their careers. There's hope in that. But it's not objective and it's insanely biased.If the situations were reversed and you were a Chiefs fan there is no way in hell you would trade Mahomes for Trubisky. Not in a million years. Why? Because you'd be a fool to. And you wouldn't apply the same baseless and convenient "we don't know yet" narrative to the argument.

No I dont think any chiefs fan would trade straight up.  I never made they argument.  I said I wouldnt trade straight up bc of an unknown quantity that it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to take anything as definitive.  Go ahead and judge off of not even 1 year of performance.  I've said all along I'll have a stronger opinion on 10 after week 12.  Personally for me this season has gone pretty much exactly as I thought it would.  I had the Bears at 5-3 at this point of the season.  I thought the offense itself would start hot thru the first four or 5 games then hit a rough stretch as defenses caught up, now I predict the offense is going to make steady progress to the end of the season.  I thought Tru would look ok to start the year and would have some gaudy games mixed in with some lesser ones and then he would start to get hot towards the end of the year.  I have thought since the draft that this could be a Dan Marino, John Elway, Jim Kelly class.  I haven't seen anything to really change my mind on that.

Edit: Also I want to make it clear when I talk about situations being reversed I'm not just talking about weapons.  One guy was drafted into a system, spent the entire offseason, a full regular season, another off season, and 9 games in that same system.  The other was drafted into an archaic offense, spent the off season plus 16 games in that archaic offense, Had a regime change and started learning a new system in April and has 8 games playing in the system.  It's not apples to apples by any means.