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Joe Flacco Hip Injury


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18 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

I don't think that'd be much of a factor in the decision. With playoffs on the line, everyone who is cleared will play. 

Also, regarding a "clean break" Flacco's not getting cut. He'll be traded IF we decide to move on. His contract to a team trading for him would basically be a year to year deal for up to 3 years $63 million. Very favorable for a team looking for a competent short term answer. 

Fair enough, I'm not sure that there will be takers for Flacco at that salary but I could be wrong. 

However, if he is injured then that would kill his trade value as well. So I think the Ravens would be wise to de-activate him for the rest of the way. Back and hip issues can become chronic if exacerbated, and Flacco isn't holding up these days as well as he used to.  

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2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Fair enough, I'm not sure that there will be takers for Flacco at that salary but I could be wrong. 

However, if he is injured then that would kill his trade value as well. So I think the Ravens would be wise to de-activate him for the rest of the way. Back and hip issues can become chronic if exacerbated, and Flacco isn't holding up these days as well as he used to.  

That salary really isn’t that bad considering the position he plays. It’s not too bad. With the team trading for him they would receive him with a contract where none of his money is guaranteed until the season begins so they can choose to part ways whenever they feel. And likely whatever team that would trade for him would be one that isn’t very confident in the QB class and/or looking to have a veteran QB for a young QB that they want to learn from and ride the bench for a season (or two). They would trade for Flacco to alleviate the pressure of having to go QB early in the draft.

Im not sure what type of value, Flacco will provide but I think he should be able to net at least a 4th round pick, though ultimately I think he’ll go for a 2019 and 2020 third round pick.

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12 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

That salary really isn’t that bad considering the position he plays. It’s not too bad. With the team trading for him they would receive him with a contract where none of his money is guaranteed until the season begins so they can choose to part ways whenever they feel. And likely whatever team that would trade for him would be one that isn’t very confident in the QB class and/or looking to have a veteran QB for a young QB that they want to learn from and ride the bench for a season (or two). They would trade for Flacco to alleviate the pressure of having to go QB early in the draft.

Im not sure what type of value, Flacco will provide but I think he should be able to net at least a 4th round pick, though ultimately I think he’ll go for a 2019 and 2020 third round pick.

Yea to add on, it's not too soon to say that it is MUCH slimmer pickings this off-season then last when you had 5 first round talents + Cousins, Alex Smith, Keenum, and Bradford as guys some team could convince them to trot out week 1.

I doubt we'll get this lucky, but again, Alex Smith got traded for a young starting corner and a 3rd. His contract is more per year for as long as they keep him, and if he can't play again and they cut bait right away, he will cost $40M in cap for the games he played this year***. If a team wanted to move on from Flacco to a young QB after year 1, it'd just be $18.5M for the year he actually played and no further cost. Or they could keep him another year or two and move on as soon as they want to turn it over, or if they find themselves a contender and want to keep going. It's pretty perfect as a stopgap QB contract.

*** It's actually worse than this, because it'd be an accelerated $42M against the cap for 2019, which if they can't fit in (hint: they can't) they are forced to keep Alex Smith and pay him even more ($15M base in 2019) even if he can't play in 2019. It's a pretty ruinous situation, and why trading for Flacco is much more attractive than trading for Smith with what we know now. 

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I think the jaguars are a logical spot for Flacco to land in. They have a good run game and defense with a few weapons in the pass game. Flacco has proved he can succeed in that formula. I would love to get their second round pick maybe Flacco and a pick for their second

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1 hour ago, RavensFC said:

I think the jaguars are a logical spot for Flacco to land in. They have a good run game and defense with a few weapons in the pass game. Flacco has proved he can succeed in that formula. I would love to get their second round pick maybe Flacco and a pick for their second

To be honest, I know that the trade value says otherwise, but I’d much rather come away with two 3rd round picks from them. Especially given our poor history with 2nd round picks and our quality history with our 3rd round picks.

That all said, our ship might’ve sailed on both if/when Jackson continues to start. Perception is everything and Alex Smith was always perceived as being an “under appreciated, borderline top 10” QB and a guy like Sam Bradford was always viewed as “talented but injury prone”. That gave those guys a bit of a leg up. Flacco’s perception is that of a bottom 10 QB starter that wins in the playoffs. That last part does carry some weight, how much will be the question. With a deep playoff run and some January Joe magic it wasn’t unreasonable to think Flacco might’ve return something beyond a 3rd, now we’ll have to hope that some team is desperate enough for a QB this offseason to compete for their job... and our new GM Eric DeCosta has the presence of mind to fleece them of some extra sustenance.

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Jackson now 3-0 and, despite a pretty rough game for him passing and turnover wise, his legs are something that this offense can't afford to lose. If we go back to Flacco, chances are we lose our entire running game for a minor upgrade to the passing attack.

I still think even if Flacco is healthy this week we just stick with Lamar going forward.

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4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Jackson now 3-0 and, despite a pretty rough game for him passing and turnover wise, his legs are something that this offense can't afford to lose. If we go back to Flacco, chances are we lose our entire running game for a minor upgrade to the passing attack.

I still think even if Flacco is healthy this week we just stick with Lamar going forward.

I think the bigger issue than the yards (because we probably would just be trading yards, maybe 100 yards more in passing for 100 yards less in rushing) is that with those extra yards of rushing our defense has been able to play fresh and limit their exposure to injuries and fatigue.

Like you mentioned in the gameday thread, we have less 3 and outs than we’ve had in such a long time. This has been allowing our defense to close out games better than we’ve seen when Flacco was the starter. We can’t forget that for all the magic that Flacco provides in the 4th quarter with passing his 3 and outs have left our defense gassed and then they eventually fall apart and were unclutch. With a run control offense, what Weddle said at the beginning of this season (“these ain’t the same Ravens”) that actually hold more true.

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3 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I'm leaning towards starting a healthy Flacco. But, man is it a great debate.

It was a debate for me, but after this game there really is no debate. Part of it seems to be a poor Falcons offensive line that allowed our pass rush to get there. But part of it is that our defense was coming hard all game long and were afforded the ability to do so.

Under Flacco I’d be comfortable saying we have:

- A top 10 defense that isn’t clutch.

- An above average to below average passing attack depending on their very inconsistent energy levels.

- A bottom 10 OL.

- An average rushing attack with Gus, Ty, and Dixon.

- A very good special teams squad all around.

Now under Lamar I’d say we have:

- A top 3 defense in the league.

- A bottom 10 passing offense.

- An above average OL (because they’re  much more effective at run blocking than pass blocking)

- An elite rushing attack

- A slightly better special teams squad (Tucker has been getting more field goal opportunities to keep him in game rhythm versus not seeing the field for long stretches and then having to go out and kick important field goals.)

 

All in all, I’m in the Jackson camp for the above reasons. He gives us elite TOP ability.

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45 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

It was a debate for me, but after this game there really is no debate. Part of it seems to be a poor Falcons offensive line that allowed our pass rush to get there. But part of it is that our defense was coming hard all game long and were afforded the ability to do so.

Under Flacco I’d be comfortable saying we have:

- A top 10 defense that isn’t clutch.

- An above average to below average passing attack depending on their very inconsistent energy levels.

- A bottom 10 OL.

- An average rushing attack with Gus, Ty, and Dixon.

- A very good special teams squad all around.

Now under Lamar I’d say we have:

- A top 3 defense in the league.

- A bottom 10 passing offense.

- An above average OL (because they’re  much more effective at run blocking than pass blocking)

- An elite rushing attack

- A slightly better special teams squad (Tucker has been getting more field goal opportunities to keep him in game rhythm versus not seeing the field for long stretches and then having to go out and kick important field goals.)

 

All in all, I’m in the Jackson camp for the above reasons. He gives us elite TOP ability.

i think people are truly understating how bad the bengals, raiders, and falcons are playing right now.... 

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17 minutes ago, paraven said:

i think people are truly understating how bad the bengals, raiders, and falcons are playing right now.... 

No doubt they're horrible, but that doesn't guarantee we would have won those games if Joe was playing.

With that said, it's not like the next two games on our schedule are significantly worse in terms of opposing defenses.

Chiefs (25th in DVOA)

Buccaneers (31st in DVOA)

Then we have:

Chargers (9th in DVOA)

Browns (8th in DVOA)

I'd rather ride it out with the guy who's lead us to 3 straight wins vs a guy who hasn't proven capable of leading us to the playoffs more than once in the last 5 years, and more importantly a guy who's style of play  contrasts the overall identity of this team and in roundabout way lessens the overall impact of our strongest asset, which is our defense.

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8 hours ago, paraven said:

i think people are truly understating how bad the bengals, raiders, and falcons are playing right now.... 

No matter how bad they are, we can't deny that Lamar Jacksons ability to keep the offense on the field and in the same moment keeping a Matt Ryan off the field has helped us win these past 3 games. We are having some "luck" that our defense and special teams have contributed with 21 points in these last two games, but it might also be a result of them being very well rested after the offense has had drives of 5-9 minutes.

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