wackywabbit Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Interesting question: Would you rather have 3 "average" starters or one All-Pro? All-pro, probably for the question you asked. Not sure if that simplification will match this. When talking about rookies there's a lot of variance still in their careers after 1 season. The Ravens approach was like taking 3 lottery tickets over 1 more sure fire bet. Honestly, I think Derwin James is overrated right now. I think he's very good, especially for a rookie at a hard position to learn, but it remains to be seen if he's a particularly good coverage safety yet. I say overrated because people act like he is already an elite player or something, while I think guys like Chubb, LVE, and Leonard were better at their position. Derwin is definitely disruptive, but at this point, he looks more like what he hoped Tony Jefferson would be, than some of the top safeties we've seen. But again, safety is a harder position for a rookie, so we'll see. Edited January 13, 2019 by wackywabbit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Completely disagree, Derwin James has this season played like a top safety and did it at multiple positions. Of course the draft is also reviewed in hindsight, but we missed out on a talent we shouldn't have missed on. We are a team with great depth but no playmakers and we didn't help ourselves 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 The question all hinges on how good the collective becomes. Andrews is actually very young. And he just posted by far the best rookie season for a TE in Ravens history. If he can develop into a 800-1000 yds receiving TE and Hurst can be a 500-700 yds type of TE, and Kenny Young reaches what looks to be his potential... then in reality, I would take that over Derwin James, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BareYourTeeth Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 I definitely would've rather taken Michael Thomas instead of Kamalei Correa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said: The question all hinges on how good the collective becomes. Andrews is actually very young. And he just posted by far the best rookie season for a TE in Ravens history. If he can develop into a 800-1000 yds receiving TE and Hurst can be a 500-700 yds type of TE, and Kenny Young reaches what looks to be his potential... then in reality, I would take that over Derwin James, for sure. So if you have one All-Pro but the other picks are maybe starters, or depth guys VS. 3 "average" starters, which would you take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said: So if you have one All-Pro but the other picks are maybe starters, or depth guys VS. 3 "average" starters, which would you take? Well All Pro. But if it’s one All Pro with the potential to get hurt for a season (torn ACL has already happened) vs 1 pro bowl player and two top 15-20 starters at their respective positions... I’ll take the latter scenario. Because even if say, Mark Andrews tears his ACL, we’ve still got Hayden Hurst there to step in and hopefully put up a pro bowl caliber season as well as Young being a top notch starter. With James going down we’re SOL. Whats more that trade is still a little more complicated because the last I checked it led to more than just 3 picks. I believe I traced it to the Orlando Brown selection as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said: Well All Pro. But if it’s one All Pro with the potential to get hurt for a season (torn ACL has already happened) vs 1 pro bowl player and two top 15-20 starters at their respective positions... I’ll take the latter scenario. Because even if say, Mark Andrews tears his ACL, we’ve still got Hayden Hurst there to step in and hopefully put up a pro bowl caliber season as well as Young being a top notch starter. With James going down we’re SOL. Whats more that trade is still a little more complicated because the last I checked it led to more than just 3 picks. I believe I traced it to the Orlando Brown selection as well. But that's not what we got, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalvadorsDeli Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) I think Andrews and Young are really good value players for where we got them, and are a good example of why you do trade down and pick up extra picks. The problem is and will continue to be Hayden Hurst himself until he distinguishes himself. Even if Derwin James is an All-Pro, this trade works reasonably well if you hit and get good value out of your late 1st round pick. If we spend 4 years saying "well at least he's a solid blocker!" then yeah, it didn't work. In hindsight it was actually trading down instead of taking James that would have allowed us in the end not to reach on Hurst given we got Andrews later on. There's always going to be a 'what could have been' with James but the bigger one for me is the Hurst slot itself and us passing on Calvin Ridley - that's who I wanted at the time at that pick and had we come out of that draft with Ridley/Andrews/Young instead of just Derwin James, I don't think we're having this conversation at all. Even though Hurst was old for a rookie, it was obviously a tough year for him given the challenges of transitioning to the NFL at the TE position and his injuries. So there's still time for him for sure. But as of now I certainly haven't seen enough from him to not gaze longingly at some of the guys we passed up. Edited January 14, 2019 by BaltimoreTerp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Funny thing is. I'm not even confident we get Derwin James on the field in a meaningful way, had we of drafted him. I'd like to believe we would have. I have my doubts though. Who does he replace? Weddle, no. Jefferson, no. Levine, no. Mosley, no. Peanut? Kenny was a true LB and still only got involved through a rotation. The coaching staff has a severe veteran slant, right or wrong, and rarely deviates from their formula. There's a significant chance we would've drafted Derwin to do little more than warm the bench. While not picking a player like Derwin can suck, picking him only to not play him...is even worse. Plus in that scenario there's no trade down and we lose out on all those other players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: But that's not what we got, is it? Do you know already? Again, I may be less confident about James' stardom than some, but TBH I'd take James (or LVE or Leonard) if I was replaying the draft today. My point was just that this is a very different and closer question than "I can't believe the FO chose Hayden Hurst over Derwin James". The latter is a flat out disengenuous statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Danand said: Completely disagree, Derwin James has this season played like a top safety and did it at multiple positions. Of course the draft is also reviewed in hindsight, but we missed out on a talent we shouldn't have missed on. We are a team with great depth but no playmakers and we didn't help ourselves James has been an impact player, no doubt. But everyone knew he was a playmaker and elite athlete before the draft and he still fell to 17. The media never figured out why. That's probably why I believe there is a disconnect on him and he may not be quite as good as the hype. I still think he has to prove that he can be an elite safety. I agree with your second paragraph, we need stars and James certainly had the potential to be one. Edited January 14, 2019 by wackywabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: But that's not what we got, is it? My point is, we don’t know what we’ve got. One year into the league on a team that is heavily veteran slanted doesn’t convince me that we haven’t received a potential pro bowl TE with two top 15-20 players. Mark Andrews, while not an All Pro, just broke our TE record for receiving yards and was one of the youngest players drafted. If he becomes the next Ertz/Kelce this trade suddenly becomes a lot different. I mean Kelce’s rookie year (while 24) he only started one game for no yards, was he without All Pro talent at that point? Zach Ertz (23) had 100 less yards his rookie season than Andrews had at 22 years old. Point is, Andrews has displayed great potential and could be on his way to a pro bowl, potentially All Pro year at some point. The value of an All Pro TE in today’s game is just as, if not more important, than an All Pro safety... regardless of which is the more athletically gifted player. I mean given the choice of prime Tony Gonzalez or prime Sean Taylor, who you taking? Throw in additional pieces that could result in a top 15-20 ILB (off of potential) and a potential top 15-20 TE in Hurst and in retrospect, it could look like a huge steal. The thing about hindsight is that sometimes, when you wait, all things become clear. We still need to wait. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I'll wait to pass further judgement, but the chances of either of our TE's becoming All-Pro on a run-first team are incredibly slim. Looking back at it, we traded out of pick 16 for picks 25 and 125. We then sent pick 125 (along with pick 52) to the Eagles for Lamar Jackson and pick 132. With pick 32 we obviously got Lamar Jackson. With pick 25 we got Hayden Hurst, and with pick 132 we got Jaleel Scott. So by count, it's Derwin James or Hayden Hurst / Lamar Jackson / Jaleel Scott. Hindsight is always 20/20 and of course I'm just guessing, but I'd be willing to wager a solid amount of money that if we stayed put at 16, we still could've moved up to grab Lamar Jackson if he was there at 32 - and as much as I do love Jackson, I'll take Derwin James over those 3 players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berlin calling Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 hours ago, DreamKid said: Funny thing is. I'm not even confident we get Derwin James on the field in a meaningful way, had we of drafted him. you know what, i think thats an excellent point. Harbaugh was basically coaching for his job this season. and, if the rumours that he has increased say in the war room on draft night after winning the SB are correct, he very well couldve gone for a potential volume catcher for Flacco over a safety he probably wouldn't have played much over the vets Weddle/Jefferson anyway. remember the TE situation was rather dire last year so makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, wackywabbit said: James has been an impact player, no doubt. But everyone knew he was a playmaker and elite athlete before the draft and he still fell to 17. The media never figured out why. That's probably why I believe there is a disconnect on him and he may not be quite as good as the hype. I still think he has to prove that he can be an elite safety. I agree with you that its not as simple as picking Derwin James over Hayden Hurst, but this does not make sense to me. What does where he was drafted have to do with the fact that he's actually played very well in the NFL in his rookie season, to the point he is an All-Pro and likely DROY (in a year with a number of worthy winners)? Draft position doesn't equal success, and if anything being drafted lower than where many thought he should have been would lower the hype around him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.