Random Ravens Thoughts: New Forum Edition

[diamondbull424]

10 hours ago, Danand said:

I really really really don't like Brown hanging out with AB.

Just as much as it would be great if AB's work ethic and craftmanship rubbed off on Brown, just as destroying would it be to have AB's voice about "me me me, focus on yourself, they don't care about you, chase them money boy" in Browns ear. 

Honestly I don’t really care much about it. I think all of the most elite talents/athletes were all a little weird/crazy. It takes an abnormal dedication to your craft to elevate yourself. Thus I see gathering habits of a WR that was on pace to be a HOF until he ruined it only serve as a good thing.

Worst case: Hollywood is a fool, he will follow in the same footsteps and become an elite but largely flawed individual/player that becomes his downfall when it comes to the pantheons of greatness.

Best case: Hollywood is smart, he will copy the elite habits and be close enough to KNOW what circumstances to avoid so as not to fall into the same footfalls of his cousin.

Either scenario I see a win-win from the organization. If it gets closer to the worse case scenario the organization is well equipped to deal him for capital quickly before other organizations realize how warped he actually is and if it’s best case scenario we sit and watch as Lamar and Hollywood develop into our first ever skill position players to make the HOF.

Edited April 1, 2020 by diamondbull424

[berlin calling]

Hollywood is 22 and probably has spend years with his cousin already. Can't see the issue in training with 2 ultra talented WRs. 

[Ray Reed]

Random thought but: we have absolutely CRUSHED our first round picks the past 4 years, and I don't think it's a coincidence that we're back to being a high-level, consistent playoff-caliber team again. Really hitting on our opportunities to get elite, blue-chip players the past few years has really raised us from that consistent 9-7ish team that we were when we were taking the Matt Elams and Perriman's of the world in the first round, to a team that's won 20 of their last 23 regular season games. 2012-2015 we still got good players in the draft, but because we were striking a lot of our "hits" in the 3rd-6thish rounds, our ceiling never really improved - we were just never going to fall below 8-8 or so. Now that we're back to hitting in the first round, I really hope Eric can keep that momentum going.

I mean, has any other NFL team had a run of first round picks like this the past 4 years?

2016: Ronnie Stanley (All Pro)

2017: Marlon Humphrey (All Pro)

2018: Lamar Jackson (NFL MVP)

2019: Hollywood Brown (Probably my favorite current "new wave" player on the team and honestly we can all already see this guy is the best WR we've ever drafted and a legit threat to be a consistent 1000 yard, 10 TD guy year in and year out moving forward)

Edited April 6, 2020 by Ray Reed

[berlin calling]

and only one of those aforementioned players is a top10 selection.

[Danand]

Just to add on that post. Go and watch the 1. drive against the Cardinals. Brown catches 3 balls, and then they fake a bubble screen which the Cardinals defense completely buys and Mark Andrews get an easy 30 touchdown, all out of the respect the defense had for Brown.

[sp6488]

6 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Random thought but: we have absolutely CRUSHED our first round picks the past 4 years, and I don't think it's a coincidence that we're back to being a high-level, consistent playoff-caliber team again. Really hitting on our opportunities to get elite, blue-chip players the past few years has really raised us from that consistent 9-7ish team that we were when we were taking the Matt Elams and Perriman's of the world in the first round, to a team that's won 20 of their last 23 regular season games. 2012-2015 we still got good players in the draft, but because we were striking a lot of our "hits" in the 3rd-6thish rounds, our ceiling never really improved - we were just never going to fall below 8-8 or so. Now that we're back to hitting in the first round, I really hope Eric can keep that momentum going.

I mean, has any other NFL team had a run of first round picks like this the past 4 years?

2016: Ronnie Stanley (All Pro)

2017: Marlon Humphrey (All Pro)

2018: Lamar Jackson (NFL MVP)

2019: Hollywood Brown (Probably my favorite current "new wave" player on the team and honestly we can all already see this guy is the best WR we've ever drafted and a legit threat to be a consistent 1000 yard, 10 TD guy year in and year out moving forward)

One point about this, to be fair, Elam and Perriman were busts, but they were also on the heels of very successful seasons that had us picking #32 (SB post-2012) and #26 (Kubiak 2014 season). Further, they are two examples, but not exactly indicators of some larger trend. Mosley was the #17 pick in the first round, sandwiched in between the two of them. In the three years before Perriman, we only had one first, Jimmy Smith, who was really good. I don't think our first round drafting really "fell off" by that much. Rather, I think it's more of an effect of drafting late year over year which really caught up with the team. No doubt it's a good thing that we've had this run of success with top picks, but I'm not sure I agree with the narrative that these were incredibly dark days in the Baltimore FO. I've said it before, but we're lucky as fans that multiple years of 8-8 or 9-7 is seen as a low point for the team.

[Ray Reed]

16 hours ago, sp6488 said:

One point about this, to be fair, Elam and Perriman were busts, but they were also on the heels of very successful seasons that had us picking #32 (SB post-2012) and #26 (Kubiak 2014 season). Further, they are two examples, but not exactly indicators of some larger trend. Mosley was the #17 pick in the first round, sandwiched in between the two of them. In the three years before Perriman, we only had one first, Jimmy Smith, who was really good. I don't think our first round drafting really "fell off" by that much. Rather, I think it's more of an effect of drafting late year over year which really caught up with the team. No doubt it's a good thing that we've had this run of success with top picks, but I'm not sure I agree with the narrative that these were incredibly dark days in the Baltimore FO. I've said it before, but we're lucky as fans that multiple years of 8-8 or 9-7 is seen as a low point for the team.

Not really the narrative I was trying to start. I think that's overstating the point I was trying to make - I actually took the time to write in that we were still killing drafts when it came to the mid-rounds. 

I just don't think it's a coincidence - at all - that a team that from 2012-2015 who's first round picks were ([None], Matt Elam, CJ Mosley and Breshad Perriman) saw a subsequent stretch (2013-2017) where our ceiling and floor seemed to hover around 8-8/9-7 every year. Most people on this forum felt like this was a very solid team  that was lacking high-end impact players during that stretch. Hell, we were consistently going 9-7 and we'd have like one player in the top 100 every year and that was Yanda. Now that we've hit on our first round picks the past 3/4 years, we have those high-end impact players again, and our record has reflected that. Drafting an All-Pro LT, CB, and QB instead of a bust S, bust WR, and above-average LB in the first round where most teams plan to get their franchise cornerstones has absolutely been the difference between a 9-7 and 14-2 team. 

And Marlon was pick #16 (one spot before Mosley), Hollywood was #25 (one pick before Perriman), and Lamar was pick #32 (same spot as Elam). So I don't buy the "late round drafting finally caught up to us" narrative personally. They missed on those picks. It happens to every team - I'm not hating on the FO - but I think it's clear that that's why we had the stretch we did from 2013-2017, and why we're on this run that we're on now Iike detailed above. But to each their own.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Ray Reed

[AngusMcFife]

30 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

Now that we've hit on our first round picks the past 3/4 years, we have those high-end impact players again, and our record has reflected that. Drafting an All-Pro LT, CB, and QB instead of a bust S, bust WR, and above-average LB in the first round where most teams plan to get their franchise cornerstones has absolutely been the difference between a 9-7 and 14-2 team. 

And Marlon was pick #16 (one spot before Mosley), Hollywood was #25 (one pick before Perriman), and Lamar was pick #32 (same spot as Elam). So I don't buy the "late round drafting finally caught up to us" narrative personally. They missed on those picks. It happens to every team - I'm not hating on the FO - but I think it's clear that that's why we had the stretch we did from 2013-2017, and why we're on this run that we're on now Iike detailed above. But to each their own.

If Lamar was the QB instead of Flacco from 2013-2017, we are winning 11+ games every year.

It's true the 1st round picks were bad from 2012-2015. But still, it was a very solid team that was held back by a mediocre QB who was a poor leader. 

[Danand]

2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

If Lamar was the QB instead of Flacco from 2013-2017, we are winning 11+ games every year.

It's true the 1st round picks were bad from 2012-2015. But still, it was a very solid team that was held back by a mediocre QB who was a poor leader. 

That is pure guess work

By that logic, we could say "if Flacco had Hollywood, Ingram and Andrews, he would win the super bowl".

If people want to blame a mediocre Flacco for the 2013, 2015 and 2016 seasons, then point towards those playmakers he had at his disposal to help him? There wasn't much. In the right scheme in 2014 he looked a lot better.

Just imagine if Flacco and the Ravens had Kubiak during Flaccos tenure. We might talk about him in a different way

[SalvadorsDeli]

34 minutes ago, Danand said:

That is pure guess work

By that logic, we could say "if Flacco had Hollywood, Ingram and Andrews, he would win the super bowl".

If people want to blame a mediocre Flacco for the 2013, 2015 and 2016 seasons, then point towards those playmakers he had at his disposal to help him? There wasn't much. In the right scheme in 2014 he looked a lot better.

Just imagine if Flacco and the Ravens had Kubiak during Flaccos tenure. We might talk about him in a different way

2016 his weapons were fine. All on the downward slope of their careers but Steve Smith/Mike Wallace/Dennis Pitta gave him a functional base to work from and he was still just sorta meh. Post-ACL tear Joe's mediocrity was mostly a function of his own limitations rather than scheme/weapons/etc., I just don't think he was really the same player after that injury. 

[AngusMcFife]

49 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

2016 his weapons were fine. All on the downward slope of their careers but Steve Smith/Mike Wallace/Dennis Pitta gave him a functional base to work from and he was still just sorta meh. Post-ACL tear Joe's mediocrity was mostly a function of his own limitations rather than scheme/weapons/etc., I just don't think he was really the same player after that injury. 

His 2013 and 2015 performances were bad, though. Bottom-10 in the league bad. 

His weapons in 2013 were bad as well. And Gino Gradkowski was a train wreck at C. But still, Flacco did nothing to elevate his team. 

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Danand said:

That is pure guess work

By that logic, we could say "if Flacco had Hollywood, Ingram and Andrews, he would win the super bowl".

You'd only make that argument if you've never seen a game of football in your life and didn't know the rules of the sport. 

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Danand said:

If people want to blame a mediocre Flacco for the 2013, 2015 and 2016 seasons, then point towards those playmakers he had at his disposal to help him? There wasn't much. In the right scheme in 2014 he looked a lot better.

The weapons in 2013 were not good, that is true. But they were just fine in 2015 and 2016.  

Quote

Just imagine if Flacco and the Ravens had Kubiak during Flaccos tenure. We might talk about him in a different way

Kubiak elevated Flacco from below-average to above-average for one year. 

He also elevated Matt Schaub to a level far higher than Flacco. And Jake Plummer. But nobody is looking back on those QBs thinking how amazing they are. Rather, people recognize they got to work with a great offensive mind in Kubiak.

[M.10.E]

I'm officially at the point where I miss watching football (and Lamar Jackson).

[wackywabbit]

5 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

I'm officially at the point where I miss watching football (and Lamar Jackson).

At least we have FREE gamepass to rewatch one of the most fun player season of all time.