Ray Reed Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) The guy made 1 special teams tackle against arizona, 1 against kc, and 1 against Pittsburgh. He didn't down a punt inside the opposition's 10 all year. That was the extent of his special teams impact for us this year. I go to every home game and watch the kick/punt coverage live. This year the guys running down and blowing guys up to influence plays outside the stat sheet were almost always Elliott, Fort, and Board. Chris Moore, Anthony Levine and Brynden Trawick have made larger ST impacts for us in recent years. I can also confidently say we won't allow another KR TD all year without him, when we did allow one to the Bengals with him on coverage. I very confidently think this is a case of people just parroting the "ST Ace" label/narrative that they hear when discussing this guy and not looking any further into it than that. Edited October 24, 2019 by Ray Reed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalvadorsDeli Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Ray Reed said: Honest question: why is everyone on Ravens twitter freaking out about Justin Bethel? I honestly can't remember a single big special teams play he's made all year (a downed punt inside the 5, big tackle on punt/kick coverage, etc). I remember Trawick making a lot more plays for us in those areas a few years ago than Bethel has this year. I think this has been a case of a guy coming in with the "special teams ace" label and people a. just kind of rolling with it because they don't pay a ton of attention to special teams and b. belichick picking him up so people automatically assuming he's the second coming of Steve Tasker. I mean go look at the NFL News and this forum's threads about when we signed him...literally everyone going "meh". Has a solid if not quiet 7 weeks, cut to get a 4th round pick, Belichick signs him and everyone's like "omg that's the GOAT midseason signing how could we have let him go" lol. It's because he signed with the Patriots. No one cared when we signed him and no one even cared when we released him, and literally everyone understood a 4th round pick is more valuable than a special teamer. But the second he signed with the Patriots, it became a big deal because everything that the Patriots and Belicheck does gets retconned into being some diabolically brilliant thing rather than just being a normal transaction. Lot of the same people who are all of a sudden so worked up about our special teams unit are the same people who constantly harp on Harbaugh for caring so much about special teams output out of our young guys to begin with (pour one out for Arthur Brown). I genuinely don't pay enough attention to our special teams units to know whether Bethel was great or not and just based on his reputation I'm sure he was pretty good, but the amount of belly-aching going on now def feels over the top (you literally have people in NFL News right now bemoaning us for not shopping him around for a draft pick lol - I'm sure everyone was lining up to make that trade). If he had gone to the Cardinals or something no one would know or care about this but since it's the Pats it's gotta be #athing. The whole thing around us playing them in 2 weeks also feels overplayed - what do people think Bethel is actually gonna give them? If that was actually a competitive advantage you'd have teams poaching people off of other teams' practice squads literally every week. Much ado about nothing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danand Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 5 hours ago, Ray Reed said: Honest question: why is everyone on Ravens twitter freaking out about Justin Bethel? I honestly can't remember a single big special teams play he's made all year (a downed punt inside the 5, big tackle on punt/kick coverage, etc). I remember Trawick making a lot more plays for us in those areas a few years ago than Bethel has this year. I think this has been a case of a guy coming in with the "special teams ace" label and people a. just kind of rolling with it because they don't pay a ton of attention to special teams and b. belichick picking him up so people automatically assuming he's the second coming of Steve Tasker. I mean go look at the NFL News and this forum's threads about when we signed him...literally everyone going "meh". Has a solid if not quiet 7 weeks, cut to get a 4th round pick, Belichick signs him and everyone's like "omg that's the GOAT midseason signing how could we have let him go" lol. I saw his number constantly around the football on punt and kickoff. Several times I also saw how fast he came down and took away the outside run option to force the returner inside where guys were coming in numbers. I honestly think this is one of the cases where "you don't know what you got till its gone". Does he hold the same value as a 4th round pick? I don't know, especially if we somehow can replicate 80% of his ability on ST. Another thing is, it annoys me that there are these appendices to the comp pick formular. Imo, a player who leaves in free agency hold some value, which should be based on the moment the player leaves, primarily the size of the contract. All the other stuff with playing time, production, the player getting cut later - that doesn't have anything to do with the value the player had when he changed teams. Mosleys injury shouldn't affect the compensation, Zardarius Smiths/Terrell Suggs production shouldn't affect the compensation and Brent Urban getting cut shouldn't affect the compensation imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berlin calling Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 well he downed a muffed punt against the Fins to begin with and i can't get myself to look for more standout plays. it is a business decision and you have to trust EDC to know what he is doing. if they lose to the Pats it won't be because of Justin freaking Bethel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 (edited) Essentially where teams/players rank in their blocks maintaining for 2.5 seconds or longer and their passrushes defeating blocks within 2.5 seconds. Top 10 DE/OLB Pass Rush Win Rate 1. Robert Quinn, Cowboys, 33% 2. T.J. Watt, Steelers, 30% 3. Khalil Mack, Bears, 29% 4. Shaquil Barrett, Buccaneers, 28%5. Matthew Judon, Ravens, 27%- 6. Takkarist McKinley, Falcons, 26% 7. Preston Smith, Packers, 25% 8. Myles Garrett, Browns, 25% 9. Dante Fowler Jr., Rams, 24% 10. DeMarcus Lawrence, Cowboys, 24% Top 10 OT Pass Block Win Rate 1. Trent Brown, Raiders, 95% 2. David Bakhtiari, Packers, 95% 3. Tytus Howard, Texans, 95% 4. Brian O'Neill, Vikings, 95% 5. Charles Leno Jr., Bears, 94% 6. Dion Dawkins, Bills, 93% 7. Ty Nsekhe, Bills, 93%8. Ronnie Stanley, Ravens, 93%- 9. Orlando Brown Jr., Ravens, 92%- 10. Anthony Castonzo, Colts, 92% Top 10 OG Pass Block Win Rate 1. Elgton Jenkins, Packers, 98%2. Marshal Yanda, Ravens, 97%- 3. Joe Thuney, Patriots, 97% 4. Quenton Nelson, Colts, 96% 5. J.R. Sweezy, Cardinals, 95% 6. Joel Bitonio, Browns, 95% 7. Brandon Brooks, Eagles, 95% 8. Ali Marpet, Buccaneers, 94% 9. David DeCastro, Steelers, 94% 10. Josh Kline, Vikings, 94% Top 10 C Pass Block Win Rate 1. Corey Linsley, Packers, 99% 2. JC Tretter, Browns, 98% 3. A.Q. Shipley, Cardinals, 97% 4. Mike Pouncey, Chargers, 97% 5. Brandon Linder, Jaguars, 96% 6. Rodney Hudson, Raiders, 96% 7. Ryan Jensen, Buccaneers, 96% 8. Mitch Morse, Bills, 95% 9. Weston Richburg, 49ers, 94%10. Matt Skura, Ravens, 93%- Team Pass Rush Win Rate 1. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 60%2. Baltimore Ravens, 56%- 3. Philadelphia Eagles, 55% 4. Dallas Cowboys, 55% 5. Jacksonville Jaguars, 50% 6. Los Angeles Rams, 50% 7. Atlanta Falcons, 49% 8. Pittsburgh Steelers, 48% 9. Green Bay Packers, 48% 10. Buffalo Bills, 47% 11. Arizona Cardinals, 47% 12. Chicago Bears, 47% 13. Cleveland Browns, 46% 14. New York Jets, 46% 15. San Francisco 49ers, 46% 16. Houston Texans, 45% 17. Indianapolis Colts, 44% 18. Washington Redskins, 44% 19. Los Angeles Chargers, 44% 20. Seattle Seahawks, 41% 21. Carolina Panthers, 41% 22. Tennessee Titans, 41% 23. New Orleans Saints, 41% 24. New England Patriots, 39% 25. New York Giants, 38% 26. Minnesota Vikings, 38% 27. Cincinnati Bengals, 37% 28. Kansas City Chiefs, 36% 29. Denver Broncos, 36% 30. Oakland Raiders, 36% 31. Miami Dolphins, 31% 32. Detroit Lions, 24% Team Pass Block Win Rate 1. Green Bay Packers, 68% 2. Buffalo Bills, 65%3. Baltimore Ravens, 65%- 4. Indianapolis Colts, 64% 5. Oakland Raiders, 63% 6. Jacksonville Jaguars, 61% 7. Houston Texans, 61% 8. Pittsburgh Steelers, 61% 9. Tennessee Titans, 60% 10. Cleveland Browns, 60% 11. Dallas Cowboys, 60% 12. New Orleans Saints, 59% 13. Arizona Cardinals, 58% 14. Los Angeles Chargers, 58% 15. New York Giants, 58% 16. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 58% 17. Chicago Bears, 57% 18. Philadelphia Eagles, 56% 19. Kansas City Chiefs, 56% 20. San Francisco 49ers, 56% 21. Minnesota Vikings, 56% 22. Washington Redskins, 56% 23. Los Angeles Rams, 54% 24. Detroit Lions, 53% 25. New England Patriots, 53% 26. New York Jets, 52% 27. Seattle Seahawks, 50% 28. Atlanta Falcons, 50% 29. Denver Broncos, 46% 30. Miami Dolphins, 43% 31. Cincinnati Bengals, 41% 32. Carolina Panthers, 40% visit the ESPN Analytics Index Some other random stuff- Context. With Jimmy back, expect even more C1 and C0 looks. Judon seeing Double Team looks at incredibly low rate, but has his fair share of wins. He's a late hit prince and 3rd in the league in QBHs with 13 as well. Edited October 24, 2019 by DreamKid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Remember, our blitz rate is at or near the top in the NFL and pass rush wins don't = pressures. Just in case those rankings look weird to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavensfanRD Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 11 hours ago, drd23 said: I would use Brian McFarland's spreadsheet if you want the most accurate numbers specifically for the Ravens, which is found at the bottom of this page https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/ He has it as $1.9 in cap space RSR used to be my go-to until I was put on with OTC and Spotrac since they update it a little more than Lombardi. But if we're at 1.9 we're good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drd23 Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, RavensfanRD said: RSR used to be my go-to until I was put on with OTC and Spotrac since they update it a little more than Lombardi. But if we're at 1.9 we're good. For me OTC = most used because its the easiest to use; Spotrac = most frequently updated; RSR/McFarland = most accurate for Ravens specific cap info 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Since we're at the BYE I decided to check in on the PFF grades. (Remember take all of this FWIW) Offense- QB Lamar Jackson: 81.3 Great HB Mark Ingram: 81.9 Great Gus Edwards: 75.1 Very Good Justice Hill: 57.2 Average WR Marquise Brown: 70.4 Good Miles Boykin: 63.1 Above Average Willie Snead: 60.6 Average Seth Roberts: 59.8 Average Chris Moore: 54.0 Below Average TE Mark Andrews: 82.0 Great Nick Boyle: 76.1 Very Good Hayden Hurst: 69.2 Good OT Ronnie Stanley: 80.8 Very Good Orlando Brown Jr: 66.2 Good OG Marshal Yanda: 76.6 Very Good Bradley Bozeman: 58.5 Average OC Matt Skura: 64.4 Above Average Defense- S Deshon Elliot: 81.2 Great Earl Thomas: 76.7 Very Good Chuck Clark: 75.4 Very Good Anthony Levine: 54.9 Below Average Tony Jefferson: 49.4 Below Average CB Marcus Peters: 82.3 Great Marlon Humphrey: 71.7 Good Maurice Canady: 65.9 Above Average Jimmy Smith: 65.0 Above Average Brandon Carr: 60.9 Average Anthony Averett: 38.7 Very Poor LB Josh Bynes: 75.8 Very Good L.J. Fort: 69.8 Good *Kenny Young: 53.8 Below Average Patrick "Peanut" Onwuasor: 45.1 Below Average Chris Board: 33.9 Very Poor EDGE Tyus Bowser: 71.1 Good Pernell McPhee: 65.1 Above Average Matt Judon: 59.4 Average *Tim Williams: 55.8 Below Average Jaylon Ferguson: 52.4 Below Average DI Zach Sieler: 81.1 Great Michael Pierce: 73.5 Very Good Chris Wormley: 73.1 Very Good Jihad Ward: 66.8 Above Average Brandon Williams: 65.5 Above Average Daylon Mack: 50.8 Below Average So.... Top 5 Offense- Top 5 Defense- 1. Mark Andrews: 82.0 Great 1. Marcus Peters: 82.3 Great 2. Mark Ingram: 81.9 Great 2. DeShon Elliot: 81.2 Great 3. Lamar Jackson: 81.3 Great 3. Zach Sieler: 81.1 Great 4. Ronnie Stanley: 80.8 Very Good 4. Earl Thomas: 76.7 Very Good 5. Marshal Yanda: 76.1 Very Good 5. Josh Bynes: 75.8 Very Good ^^^You've gotta love how WTF that defensive side is compared to the offense. Who'da thunk it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 (edited) Those grades actually look very accurate until you get to the defensive line lol like I'm sorry but there is NO WAY Sieler and Wormley are two of our best players there. EDIT: That Tony Jefferson grade Edited October 25, 2019 by AFlaccoSeagulls 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BareYourTeeth Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) Edited October 26, 2019 by BareYourTeeth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 On 10/25/2019 at 12:16 PM, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Those grades actually look very accurate until you get to the defensive line lol like I'm sorry but there is NO WAY Sieler and Wormley are two of our best players there. EDIT: That Tony Jefferson grade I don’t know how they grade but their system probably doesn’t take into account things like occupying double team blocks and clogging space but rather pressure events get graded well or run stuffs behind the LOS. I could see a situation where Wormley and Sieler get a few lucky pressures on 1st down where little attention goes there way and that boosts there score over Williams/Pierce. Williams isn’t as athletic/young as he used to be so he isn’t taking on double teams and still making the plays himself, which is why he’s not likely scoring as highly, but the damage he generates is why Wormley/Sieler/Fort/Bynes are able to score as effectively even though they’re all average to above average players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 18 hours ago, BareYourTeeth said: The smart business move by Jax would be to choose Yannick as their franchise defender moving forward. That said I think interior pass rush is a bigger issue than exterior rush. I see a huge opportunity there with Calais Campbell being cut. He seems like our perfect type of offseason signing. He’s going to be a cut player so he won’t count against the comp pick formula. He’s still a very productive veteran that is searching for a ring. He’s got the right mentality as he’s still having career success. He likely also won’t come very expensive. Signing Campbell would be reminiscent of when the organization signed Trevor Pryce for that 2006 defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baltimoreRebel Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Flacco is fired up. I love Joe. Always will. He truly has zero to work with though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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