Random Ravens Thoughts: New Forum Edition

[coordinator0]

1 hour ago, BareYourTeeth said:

I thought when a player on a rookie deal is extended that new deal adds on, doesn't take place until after their rookie contract is completed?

He's past the last game of the third year of his contract so anything can happen now in terns of extension/renegotiation. 

[coordinator0]

57 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Jefferson occupies a unique place in Ravens' history. One of the worst on field additions, but an incredible off field addition. 

Which is why I can't understand some of the abuse a faction of the fans throw at him. Like sure, he wasn't in any way a good player for us. That doesn't mean he didn't give his all on the field or try to boost the club in other ways though. No reason to celebrate his injury or wish him ill will, which I've unfortunately seen too much of.

I hope he bounces back from his injury and ends his career on a high note. Can see him pushing for analyst jobs too, dude loves the social side of the game.

I'm still miffed about the whole thing. We KNEW it was going to turn out like this if the team used him in a traditional safety role. Like it was the most accurate our forum has ever been with opinions/predictions about a certain player.  That's not Jefferson's fault at all and why I don't and haven't really had any strong negative feelings about him. Just a bad on-field situation the coaching staff bungled from day one. Or the front office if they knew the staff was going to utilize him that way. Either way it was one of the biggest free agent failings Baltimore has had.

Still can't hate on Tony though. He just seems like such a good dude that loved his time with the Ravens. I get the same vibe from Weddle. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

16 hours ago, coordinator0 said:

I'm still miffed about the whole thing. We KNEW it was going to turn out like this if the team used him in a traditional safety role. Like it was the most accurate our forum has ever been with opinions/predictions about a certain player.  That's not Jefferson's fault at all and why I don't and haven't really had any strong negative feelings about him. Just a bad on-field situation the coaching staff bungled from day one. Or the front office if they knew the staff was going to utilize him that way. Either way it was one of the biggest free agent failings Baltimore has had.

Still can't hate on Tony though. He just seems like such a good dude that loved his time with the Ravens. I get the same vibe from Weddle. 

Thing is, we've been doing stupid moves like that at safety ever since we lost Ed Reed. We tried it with Matt Elam, then Kendrick Lewis, then Eric Weddle, then Tony Jefferson. None of those guys had the range to play the single-high safety role and all of them were pretty damn good box safeties, but nope.

I just don't get it. These organizations are world-class talent evaluators but consistently do this.

[Ray Reed]

20 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Thing is, we've been doing stupid moves like that at safety ever since we lost Ed Reed. We tried it with Matt Elam, then Kendrick Lewis, then Eric Weddle, then Tony Jefferson. None of those guys had the range to play the single-high safety role and all of them were pretty damn good box safeties, but nope.

I just don't get it. These organizations are world-class talent evaluators but consistently do this.

The safeties in our defense are interchangeable - for better or worse. We don’t really have a “single high safety”...Earl was in the box a ton last year and he’s probably the most qualified guy since Ed to play that type of role. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

11 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

The safeties in our defense are interchangeable - for better or worse. We don’t really have a “single high safety”...Earl was in the box a ton last year and he’s probably the most qualified guy since Ed to play that type of role. 

Which makes it even more embarrassing that we keep trying to plug these box safeties into a role where they WILL be asked to play single-high. The reason it works with Earl is because he's already a true FS with the range and instincts to do that. None of those other guys (sans Eric Weddle, and even he was past his prime and lost his range) could do that.

If we know the type of player we want (someone who can play both), we're really bad at evaluating it right now.

[coordinator0]

Yeah. I think it's safe to say that the team's ideal safety is fairly obvious. They've just been bad at actually getting guys who can fill those roles. Luckily they have Thomas and Clark now. The latter hopefully for a while and the former probably for at least two more seasons. 

[Ray Reed]

13 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Which makes it even more embarrassing that we keep trying to plug these box safeties into a role where they WILL be asked to play single-high. The reason it works with Earl is because he's already a true FS with the range and instincts to do that. None of those other guys (sans Eric Weddle, and even he was past his prime and lost his range) could do that.

If we know the type of player we want (someone who can play both), we're really bad at evaluating it right now.

Meh. I think there’s a bit of hyperbole there in saying we’re really bad at evaluating safeties. Since Ed i think it’s been a pretty mixed bag

Hits - ET, Chuck Clark, Eric Weddle 

Busts - Tony Jefferson, Michael Huff, Elam, Kendrick Lewis

I think Deshon Elliott is a guy who when healthy has proven the ability to play that interchangeable safety role too. Carr was decent enough when he lined up at safety last year too in those packages. Anthony Levine is the poster child for a solid yet unspectacular guy who can do everything we ask of him. James Ihedigbo was solid for us that year or two he played relatively more snaps for us after Pollard left. Guys like Terrence Brooks had potential but didn’t seem to catch on with us for whatever reason - he was playing in games for the Patriots last year so it’s not like we completely whiffed on evaluating him from a talent standpoint. 

Obviously some misses in there, but that’s just the NFL. I don’t think you can really say a team that’s been dominant on defense the last 2 years with our secondary being the primary reason for that is “really bad” in any particular aspect of evaluating defensive players...obviously hit a rough patch in that 2/3 year stretch where we were starting Elam/Kendrick Lewis, but since then I don’t see a team that’s gotten like heinously worse play from it’s safeties than other teams around the league in the slightest - yeah, Tony didn’t work out, but we had the #1 defense in the NFL with him starting in 2018 and we seemed to have found a pretty damn good replacement in Chuck Clark.

 

[Danand]

2 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Meh. I think there’s a bit of hyperbole there in saying we’re really bad at evaluating safeties. Since Ed i think it’s been a pretty mixed bag

Hits - ET, Chuck Clark, Eric Weddle 

Busts - Tony Jefferson, Michael Huff, Elam, Kendrick Lewis

I think Deshon Elliott is a guy who when healthy has proven the ability to play that interchangeable safety role too. Carr was decent enough when he lined up at safety last year too in those packages. Anthony Levine is the poster child for a solid yet unspectacular guy who can do everything we ask of him. James Ihedigbo was solid for us that year or two he played relatively more snaps for us after Pollard left. Guys like Terrence Brooks had potential but didn’t seem to catch on with us for whatever reason - he was playing in games for the Patriots last year so it’s not like we completely whiffed on evaluating him from a talent standpoint. 

Obviously some misses in there, but that’s just the NFL. I don’t think you can really say a team that’s been dominant on defense the last 2 years with our secondary being the primary reason for that is “really bad” in any particular aspect of evaluating defensive players...obviously hit a rough patch in that 2/3 year stretch where we were starting Elam/Kendrick Lewis, but since then I don’t see a team that’s gotten like heinously worse play from it’s safeties than other teams around the league in the slightest - yeah, Tony didn’t work out, but we had the #1 defense in the NFL with him starting in 2018 and we seemed to have found a pretty damn good replacement in Chuck Clark.

 

I do think there is some argument to be made, that we have been bad at identifying the right fits for our safeties.

Tony Jefferson I think is a guy who was put in a bad situation, and while too much was his fault, we had a big responsibility with him not succeeding. 

I like Weddle, but I actually think he was a guy who was overvalued for what he did with us. Certainly a field general in the back and he had the mental side of the game going for him, but his 2017 season, he feasted along with our defense against really bad offenses and a lot of bad/rookie QB's. In 2018 it was clear he was just too slow once the chess match prior to snap was over and he actually had to be in the right place.

I really really hope Elliot can stay healthy, as I think we have a fit with him. All he has done in limited time has been impressive, whether it has been special teams, playing in the box or playing as a deep safety.

If he has a good year and stay healthy, I hope we can lock him to a Chuck Clark similar contract so we are ready once Earls time is up.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

5 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Meh. I think there’s a bit of hyperbole there in saying we’re really bad at evaluating safeties. Since Ed i think it’s been a pretty mixed bag

Hits - ET, Chuck Clark, Eric Weddle 

Busts - Tony Jefferson, Michael Huff, Elam, Kendrick Lewis

I think Deshon Elliott is a guy who when healthy has proven the ability to play that interchangeable safety role too. Carr was decent enough when he lined up at safety last year too in those packages. Anthony Levine is the poster child for a solid yet unspectacular guy who can do everything we ask of him. James Ihedigbo was solid for us that year or two he played relatively more snaps for us after Pollard left. Guys like Terrence Brooks had potential but didn’t seem to catch on with us for whatever reason - he was playing in games for the Patriots last year so it’s not like we completely whiffed on evaluating him from a talent standpoint. 

Obviously some misses in there, but that’s just the NFL. I don’t think you can really say a team that’s been dominant on defense the last 2 years with our secondary being the primary reason for that is “really bad” in any particular aspect of evaluating defensive players...obviously hit a rough patch in that 2/3 year stretch where we were starting Elam/Kendrick Lewis, but since then I don’t see a team that’s gotten like heinously worse play from it’s safeties than other teams around the league in the slightest - yeah, Tony didn’t work out, but we had the #1 defense in the NFL with him starting in 2018 and we seemed to have found a pretty damn good replacement in Chuck Clark.

ET is a hit for literally any defense, same with Eric Weddle.

Chuck Clark we actually lucked into thanks to an injury to Tony Jefferson. Deshon Elliott has a lot of promise if he can stay healthy.

It's just kind of weird that we keep trying to fill the "balanced safety" positions with guys who are clearly box safeties.

[sp6488]

18 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

ET is a hit for literally any defense, same with Eric Weddle.

Chuck Clark we actually lucked into thanks to an injury to Tony Jefferson. Deshon Elliott has a lot of promise if he can stay healthy.

It's just kind of weird that we keep trying to fill the "balanced safety" positions with guys who are clearly box safeties.

This sort of minimizes the role the team had in actually drafting and retaining the guy, no?

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, sp6488 said:

This sort of minimizes the role the team had in actually drafting and retaining the guy, no?

True but I guess my understanding of this is that, at least at the safety position, there has been a bit of a disconnect between what the front office believes to be the best utilization of the safeties we pick up and how the coaching staff actually uses them. Front office seem to be an opportunistic BPA and the coaching staff seemingly agrees to that only to use them in a duel safety role regardless how specialized their skillset is.

So I can agree with that notion for sure. Though I can also agree with the notion that Clark was definitely a terrific gambit performed by them though, no question.

Edited May 26, 2020 by diamondbull424

[Ray Reed]

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/eric-decosta-named-sporting-news-nfl-executive-of-the-year

 

Decosta executive of the year...we are so lucky to have gone from Ozzie to Eric.

[sp6488]

4 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/eric-decosta-named-sporting-news-nfl-executive-of-the-year

 

Decosta executive of the year...we are so lucky to have gone from Ozzie to Eric.

Wonder if EDC has started grooming an eventual right-hand man? When exactly did we know EDC was the future successor? 

[SalvadorsDeli]

24 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

Wonder if EDC has started grooming an eventual right-hand man? When exactly did we know EDC was the future successor? 

Think we're a ways off of that. DeCosta I think became de-facto GM-in-waiting in 2012 when he turned down the Bears job, so it was a while in the making, but at that point Ozzie had already been in the job for 15+ years and was 56 years old so it made sense to think about a succession plan when there was someone as highly regarded as EDC waiting in the wings. EDC is only 49 and just getting started, assuming he keeps up his performance I would guess he's looking at keeping this job for another 10-15 years. 

[Ray Reed]