Random Ravens Thoughts: New Forum Edition

[M.10.E]

When do we press the panic button on our LBers? Because all 3 have pretty much stunk this year. Bowser and Queen are just horrendous liabilities when it comes to tackling. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by M.10.E

[BareYourTeeth]

11 hours ago, baltimoreRebel said:

Make of it what you will 😁

Might be giving him Hayes' roster spot.

[DreamKid]

19 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

When do we press the panic button on our LBers? Because all 3 have pretty much stunk this year. Bowser and Queen are just horrendous liabilities when it comes to tackling. 

McKusick touched on this in his weekly review. Unfortunately though, there's really nothing we can do this time around imo. Just have to hope Queen and Harrison grow throughout the season. Wink can tweak his approach to defending the screen game and maybe Bynes can pull a Round 2 resurgence for us or something, but the latter is a long shot and we shouldn't bank on any major patches being put over this weakness. The 'rabbit pulled out of a hat' for the 2019 season mentioned by McKusick here... just isn't going to happen again. 

Bowser is a rotational coverage specialist, so he's not too big a factor here(does need to drastically improve his tackling though and take advantage of all the TO opportunities that fall into his lap).

For Queen, I look at it like this:

(Hope)1. He's not going to play as bad as that every game, and hopefully he'll improve throughout the season. Turned 22 Y/O last month, about 8 months younger than Oweh.

(Reality)2. Missing our big bodies up front compounded the issue. Williams, Wolfe, and Madubuike eat up blockers to help keep Queen clean on plays. Their absence didn't help the situation, and we'll hopefully have them back shortly.

(Truth)3. Not every ball carrier we'll face is De'Andre Swift. So the potential for Patrick falling victim to FMTs isn't going to be the same each week.

That's how I view it. On to Denver, and let's hope he's better. 🤷‍♂️

 

Ken's take that I mentioned- https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/defensive-notes-week3-2021-lions/

LIONS ATTACK RAVENS WEAKNESS
The Ravens entered the game with just 4 active DL, including COVID elevation Khalil McKenzie, who is listed at guard on the Ravens roster and has just over 100 snaps of NFL experience.  In addition to the absence of 2 of the 3 Monstars (Williams and Wolfe), the Ravens played without 2 of their 6 OLBs (Ferguson and Houston).

The Lions responded with heavy schemes intended to wear down the Ravens front 5.  Former Raven Will Holden was inserted 7 times as a 6th offensive lineman.  The Lions deployed a TE, FB, or 6th offensive lineman for 101 individual snaps (1.60 per play).  When OLB Daelin Hayes was lost after playing just 4 snaps, the Ravens situation appeared more dire.

It wasn’t until the 2nd half that the game plan paid dividends.  Detroit scored on all 3 of its drives and moved the ball 75, 75, and 62 yards to do so.

The disturbing truth is that it wasn’t the depleted DL or OLBs that failed the Ravens, but their ongoing weakness at ILB where coverage, tackling, and getting off blocks have been a big problem.  Goff took the ILBs to the woodshed in the second half with 16 pass attempts that went for 160 net yards (10.0 YPP) including 6 of 6 for 56 yards to RB De’Andre Swift.  Let’s see if we can find a common thread in Swift’s 2nd-half receptions:

(Q3, 10:21): PR11 (-3 + 14 YAC)
(Q3, 8:49): PL14 (2 + 12 YAC)
(Q3, 8:09): PR19 (-1 + 20 YAC)
(Q3, 0:41): PR-3 (-8 + 5 YAC)
(Q4, 11:10): PL9 (-5 +14 YAC)
(Q4, 9:47): PL6 (1 + 5 YAC)
Total: 56 yards (-14 + 70 YAC)

Of the Lions 217 gross passing yards, 168 came on YAC.

This brings us to the elephant in the room…

PATRICK QUEEN
On Sunday:

He was 2nd on the team with 6 tackles, but missed, took a bad angle, or was outmaneuvered on 6 others (Q1, 5:51; Q2, 0:25; Q2, 0:19; Q3, 10:21; Q3, 6:07; Q4, 14:55).
He consistently failed to use his arms while tackling.  Despite spending a fair portion of the Summer embracing a tackling donut, he’s not wrapping up every time, particularly if there is another player in the area.
He was stuck on blocks, caught in the wash, and tentative in his downhill play.
He did not make an impact in coverage.  I used to be most concerned about his ability to react to throws between level 2 and level 3, but recognition remains a big issue on the plays in front of him.  He needs to take the YAC piled up by an opposing running back as a personal affront.
He was the lone off-ball blitzer on 3 plays and was stonewalled each time (Q1, 4:34; Q2, 14:18, Q2, 8:48) on plays that became ATS opportunities.  Amazingly, Goff completed just 1 of these 3 opportunities for 3 total yards.
He was removed for a play during the middle of the Lions 11-play drive in the third quarter.  It might have been an equipment issue, but I think it was more likely a coaching moment. 

Let’s review a little recent team history.

In 2018, the Ravens had CJ Mosley in his last year with the team and playing the mike role well.  At the will spot, the Ravens had a platoon of Patrick Onwuasor, Kenny Young, and Anthony Levine who combined for outstanding pass rush, coverage, and tackle totals and a far lower cap cost than would normally be paid for a 3-down ILB.  The Ravens rode their defense to the AFC North title as an ideal complement to Jackson’s rookie season.

Following Mosley’s departure in free agency, the 2019 Ravens promoted Onwuasor to the full-time mike role and gave him the green dot.  A pair of 2nd-year players (Kenny Young and Chris Board) began the season splitting time at the will spot.  The Ravens fell to 2-2 after a week-4 loss to Cleveland and had been gashed by the Cardinals, Chiefs, and Browns in the last 3 games. 

Eric DeCosta and the coaching staff acted quickly and decisively:

The coaching staff moved the green dot (to Jefferson in week 4 then Clark in week 5)
DeCosta acquired 2 new ILBs (LJ Fort and Josh Bynes) who made significant contributions to an outstanding defense over the final 12 games
Onwuasor was returned to a platoon will role
Young was traded several weeks later as part of a package for Marcus Peters
Board was relegated to special teams and played only 2 more defensive snaps from week 5 on
Chuck Clark not only excelled as the signal caller, but also turned in a great year as the dime back which gave Martindale flexibility in terms of how many and which ILBs would be used by game situation and offensive personnel
DeCosta used a large slug of the Ravens draft capital to select 2 ILBs in the 2020 draft
Injuries have hit the 2021 Ravens hard, including the loss of the team’s best coverage linebacker, LJ Fort, for the full season.  While the team remains a playoff contender, the Ravens ILB play has provided the league a blueprint for beating them that could cause the team to unravel long before a critical late-season stretch against the Browns and Steelers.

So where do the Ravens go from here?

As I see it, they have at least the following options:

Continue with Queen as the mike and hope his play improves—I’m reminded of an old line from the Simpsons where the town comes to rebuild Ned Flanders’ house and Apu says they have “a wheelbarrow full of love and a cement mixer full of hope…and some cement.”  My point is that hope alone is not a strategy, the Ravens will need a plan and observable progress.
Carve out a limited role where he can focus on a smaller set of improvements to contribute and graduate to a 3-down role in the future
Bench him and hope positional coaching and a rigorous offseason (which will require his personal commitment) can get him turned around
Trade him
Making the situation more complicated, the Ravens do not have a backup playing so well he’s threatening to take Queen’s spot.  Malik Harrison is a 2-down thumper who makes more sense at mike, but he’s had his own coverage difficulties.  Chris Board is probably too small for the mike, has never played the run well, and had problems both as a tackler and in coverage in 2020.  Josh Bynes is a good tackler who brings veteran understanding of the game, but at age 32 he has less-than-ideal speed and athleticism.

None of the obvious options look good, so the Ravens may need Eric DeCosta to again pull a rabbit from his hat.  That will be even more challenging in a year without cap space.

[AngusMcFife]

52 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Making the situation more complicated, the Ravens do not have a backup playing so well he’s threatening to take Queen’s spot.  Malik Harrison is a 2-down thumper who makes more sense at mike, but he’s had his own coverage difficulties.  Chris Board is probably too small for the mike, has never played the run well, and had problems both as a tackler and in coverage in 2020.  Josh Bynes is a good tackler who brings veteran understanding of the game, but at age 32 he has less-than-ideal speed and athleticism.

 

LOL it's Bynes's destiny to swoop in and take the MIKE spot from a younger player... again. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

42 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

LOL it's Bynes's destiny to swoop in and take the MIKE spot from a younger player... again. 

Well maybe if our younger players weren't absolute trash it wouldn't happen!

[DreamKid]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Well maybe if our younger players weren't absolute trash it wouldn't happen!

They're not outright trash, they're just struggling atm and have clear areas where they need to improve imo. Maybe they get better maybe they don't, but it's a process with young players. We replaced Kenny Young with Bynes/Fort, then traded him, and now he's a productive 25 Y/O starter for the Rams. Queen is 22 Y/O and Harrison is 23 Y/O. It's not all or nothing. 

Let's hope they start to replicate flashes like these and cut down on the mistakes-

 

[sp6488]

12 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

They're not outright trash, they're just struggling atm and have clear areas where they need to improve imo.

 

A player is either outright trash or GOAT. There is no in between.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Every player has "flashes", but if you can't put together consistent production, and your floors are lower than your ceilings (IE when Queen gets beat, he gives up HUGE plays but when he makes a play it's just a tackle), then yeah it warrants criticism and questioning about the future.

It's not like Queen is having many mental lapses - getting beat in the open field and being a horrible tackler are not things that get solved by getting older.

[DreamKid]

27 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Every player has "flashes", but if you can't put together consistent production, and your floors are lower than your ceilings (IE when Queen gets beat, he gives up HUGE plays but when he makes a play it's just a tackle), then yeah it warrants criticism and questioning about the future.

That's what the LB position is though. It's low yield and relatively unimportant compared to every other defensive spot for the most part. It's impossible for any LBs ceiling to be all that valuable. They're not going to lockdown DeAndre Hopkins all game or consistently implode the IOL or something. 

When CJ Mosley was here it was our most vulnerable spot, when Kenny Young was here it was our most vulnerable spot, and now it's still the most vulnerable spot with Queen. You can only do so much with the position against modern offenses. We drafted two young high ceiling LBs to grow within a rotation that included a talented Vet in LJ Fort. Unfortunately Fort got hurt and we're forced to experience the growing pains of those young LBs who are currently stepping up to the plate. 

We already bring as many Safeties on to the field as we can, we employ a rotation at the position to try and maximize our player's strengths, we've invested in big bodies up front to control the LOS. What else are we supposed to do? Spend early round picks on LBs until we identify someone who can immediately play mistake free football every game or perform at an All-Pro level? 

30 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

It's not like Queen is having many mental lapses - getting beat in the open field and being a horrible tackler are not things that get solved by getting older.

Getting bigger/faster/stronger as you advance through your 20s is absolutely a thing, and certainly helps produce a more physical player- a dominant % of prospect evaluation is based around that reality. Plus tackling is technique driven. Sure natural acumen is a major factor, but technique within the art form is real and if you don't believe young players can improve their technique... IDK what to say- you probably shouldn't be in the evaluation game if that's your mindset. 

[baltimoreRebel]

He can tackle and play inside. I do remember him being a liability in pass coverage though. Worth a thought. 

[drd23]

 

One of the few opportunities we have to get Nantz/Romo commentating a game of ours and instead we still get stuck with Catalon and Lofton

[drd23]

 

[drd23]

 

[DreamKid]

Watching that show 'The League', and they have a lot of Ravens references in there. There's a ton of football discussion in general(It's a show about a group of friends in a FF league), but specifically they mention Ravens players a good amount- or at least it seems that way to a fan.

Kind of offers a weird flashback to a different NFL era too. There was one story point where they were discussing picking up Glen Coffee off waivers.... really tripped me out. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

6 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Watching that show 'The League', and they have a lot of Ravens references in there. There's a ton of football discussion in general(It's a show about a group of friends in a FF league), but specifically they mention Ravens players a good amount- or at least it seems that way to a fan.

Kind of offers a weird flashback to a different NFL era too. There was one story point where they were discussing picking up Glen Coffee off waivers.... really tripped me out. 

Are you just now starting it? That show's been around forever but it's so, so good. They had Suggs as a guest appearance once season.