Random Ravens Thoughts: New Forum Edition

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

9 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

For me the question is in, among the two, who I have more faith in to learn from their mistakes and evolve. Roman isn't just some one-time issue for Harbaugh he's basically a walking indictment of Harbaugh's entire approach to coaching this team. If you're going to be a 'CEO' style coach then you can't suck this much at evaluating your own coaching staff on one side of the ball.

He has consistently hired good DC's and consistently hired awful OC's. In 15 years he's only ever really made one great hire at OC - Kubiak - and even there that was basically forced on him after he initially told Ozzie and Bisciotti that he wanted to promote Jim Hostler instead [lol]. We should trust his record on that. If McDonald leaves, our defense will be fine because we'll get someone else good in. 

And on the other end, there's no reason to believe that Harbaugh isn't going to bring in another unimaginative bore at OC who talks a big game about playing physical and pounding the rock to replace Roman. And when his OC's stink, he can't do anything to change things because he has no X's and O's competence of his own. So every week when he acts surprised at Gus Edwards' snap counts or Rashod Bateman's targets, he's being honest.  Harbaugh runs this team from Monday through Saturday, but on Sundays, Greg Roman and Mike McDonald are co-head coaches. Harbaugh's a spectator who gets to decide whether we go for it on 4th down. And I think we've seen enough to understand by now that this organizational model just caps what this team's ceiling can be. 

EDC, on the other hand? There were fatal flaws in the ways he's built this team. He needs to modify his approach/model somewhat to better account for positional value - right now our team is talented but just weirdly unbalanced - 4 startable safeties but zero CB depth, ballers at ILB but role players on the EDGE, talented TE's who can never see the field and XFL talent at WR. But I can at least, for now, believe that he has the capacity to change and evolve. There's not 15 years of track record telling me that this is who he is. I'd like to see what he can build under a different coaching staff. I have zero curiosity about what Harbaugh can do in a different circumstance because we basically already know the answer. 

I mean I agree with all of this but let me play devil's advocate here for a second.

When our team was floundering in 2018 and we decided to go all in on Lamar, Harbaugh completely changed this team's identity to maximize Lamar's potential at the time, which was utilizing his athleticism on the ground to create the best rushing attack in the NFL. He brought in an OC and system to do just that, and it made Lamar a unanimous MVP.

Then, when Harbaugh (and everyone else) identified how weak our WR's and passing game was/is, he brought in two of the most highly respected coaches to help with that. Obviously those guys haven't been able to change/improve literally anything, which is also an indictment on Harbaugh, but it shows he was able to recognize the problem and made active strides to solve it.

Of course, the biggest negative against Harbaugh is that he's loyal to a fault to Greg Roman, but I would also mention that it feels like this organization always favors exhausting our options before firing someone, because teams that change just for the sake of change are almost always the losers. So, without wanting to fire Roman, they brought in additional coaches to help the WR's develop (and that's failed) and help the passing game (that's also failed).

Ultimately, I agree with you, all of this falls back onto Harbaugh. For how much credit we owe him for how he completely turned this franchise around in 2018, we have to dock him for not making necessary changes at the OC position and the changes he has made just haven't panned out. Our passing game is worse than ever, the concepts/coaching are worse than ever, and there's been absolutely no sign of any WR's developing beyond Devin Duvernay, who went from WR4 to a high-end WR3.

[SalvadorsDeli]

28 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I mean I agree with all of this but let me play devil's advocate here for a second.

When our team was floundering in 2018 and we decided to go all in on Lamar, Harbaugh completely changed this team's identity to maximize Lamar's potential at the time, which was utilizing his athleticism on the ground to create the best rushing attack in the NFL. He brought in an OC and system to do just that, and it made Lamar a unanimous MVP.

Then, when Harbaugh (and everyone else) identified how weak our WR's and passing game was/is, he brought in two of the most highly respected coaches to help with that. Obviously those guys haven't been able to change/improve literally anything, which is also an indictment on Harbaugh, but it shows he was able to recognize the problem and made active strides to solve it.

There are basically only two times in the Harbaugh era where we saw him change/evolve in the moment and sort of swing for the fences - 2012 when he faced a locker room mutiny and fired Cam Cameron, and 2018 when he made the move from Joe to Lamar.  Those two moments were not-so coincidentally the only times in his career that he was on the verge of being fired and was genuinely coaching for his job.  So I guess the upside of keeping him and giving him a one year ultimatum is that we might finally see a more aggressive/creative Harbaugh next year knowing that he can't just go through the motions and collect his paycheck by building a 9-8 team that tries really hard. But idk, that just again feels like an indictment of who  he is at a coach. He's capable of more but only ever makes ceiling-raising moves when forced because moderately above average is otherwise good enough for him. 

I heartily disagree with the notion that he made concrete, proactive moves to fix our passing scheme. He made superficial moves and doubled down on the Roman offense when the situation was crying out for something more. And if he really believed that bringing in some guy to work harder on the footwork of our WR's was the answer, it's just another reminder that the guy has zero ability to evaluate this offense and build a consistent, explosive offensive system. 

In any case, probably a moot point because I do think he'll be back next year. If he pulls a rabbit out of a hat and wins on Sunday w/o Lamar, then he's safe for sure.  And I don't necessarily think that's a disaster - he's not a bad head coach, he's just not really an elite one either IMO. 

Assuming EDC and Harbaugh are both back next year, the question then goes to Bisciotti as to whether there are other forms of accountability/pressure that he's bringing internally. The OC search will be a good early indicator on that front. Will it be a real search that looks at outside guys like Mike LaFleur (who should IMO be our first call)? Or is it going to be a couple of token interviews before landing on Matt Weiss or some other greater Harbaugh universe coach? If it's the latter then you basically already have your answer that next year will just be more of the same. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by SalvadorsDeli

[santiagomn8]

So hypothetical question for everyone out there.

I assume everyone has seen all the Lamar-Ravens drama out there. So

Let’s say we ride into the playoffs and somehow beat Burrow, Allen, and Mahomes to reach the Super Bowl with Huntley. Now it’s more of a run game defense and a few plays no mistake games by Huntley. Then all of a sudden Lamar is ready to practice Super Bowl week. Are you riding with Huntley or do you want Lamar to start if he can?

[wackywabbit]

4 minutes ago, santiagomn8 said:

So hypothetical question for everyone out there.

I assume everyone has seen all the Lamar-Ravens drama out there. So

Let’s say we ride into the playoffs and somehow beat Burrow, Allen, and Mahomes to reach the Super Bowl with Huntley. Now it’s more of a run game defense and a few plays no mistake games by Huntley. Then all of a sudden Lamar is ready to practice Super Bowl week. Are you riding with Huntley or do you want Lamar to start if he can?

Edit: Nevermind I have nothing to say

Edited January 13, 2023 by wackywabbit

[santiagomn8]

13 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

Edit: Nevermind I have nothing to say

I respect it

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

47 minutes ago, santiagomn8 said:

So hypothetical question for everyone out there.

I assume everyone has seen all the Lamar-Ravens drama out there. So

Let’s say we ride into the playoffs and somehow beat Burrow, Allen, and Mahomes to reach the Super Bowl with Huntley. Now it’s more of a run game defense and a few plays no mistake games by Huntley. Then all of a sudden Lamar is ready to practice Super Bowl week. Are you riding with Huntley or do you want Lamar to start if he can?

Lamar and I didn't even have to think for more than .001 seconds on it.

Next question.

[baltimoreRebel]

9 hours ago, santiagomn8 said:

So hypothetical question for everyone out there.

I assume everyone has seen all the Lamar-Ravens drama out there. So

Let’s say we ride into the playoffs and somehow beat Burrow, Allen, and Mahomes to reach the Super Bowl with Huntley. Now it’s more of a run game defense and a few plays no mistake games by Huntley. Then all of a sudden Lamar is ready to practice Super Bowl week. Are you riding with Huntley or do you want Lamar to start if he can?

LOL stop

 

[DreamKid]

Justin Houston has already said he wants to play another year and enjoys Baltimore. 🤞 Fingers crossed Calais wants to hunt that 100th Sack and comes back for one more year as well. 

 

 

[RavensfanRD]

9 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Justin Houston has already said he wants to play another year and enjoys Baltimore. 🤞 Fingers crossed Calais wants to hunt that 100th Sack and comes back for one more year as well. 

 

 

I would be on board with this, but I just don't see it in the teams future. I feel they're gonna blow it up with most of the contracts coming off the books for '23. Houston and Calais are in straight ring chasing mode. With the current uncertainty surrounding LJ8, do we really think they'll come back here with the unknown? I don't see it.

[baltimoreRebel]

[DreamKid]

51 minutes ago, RavensfanRD said:

I would be on board with this, but I just don't see it in the teams future. I feel they're gonna blow it up with most of the contracts coming off the books for '23. Houston and Calais are in straight ring chasing mode. With the current uncertainty surrounding LJ8, do we really think they'll come back here with the unknown? I don't see it.

Only legit holes on the roster are at WR & CB. I wouldn't place any limits on what we can do in 23'. Even if we trade Lamar it's not like Huntley will be our starter. We'll find someone better and all the picks we'd get from a Lamar deal would let us go crazy. Plus, Roman will be gone.

I'm not worried about it. Calais is under contract too, so unless we cut/trade him or he retires he'll be back.

[DontTazeMeBro]

Blame game. If Lamar could’ve played it’s squarely on him. If he really couldn’t then we just got unlucky. MAYBE you could say DeCosta because we didn’t have a better backup QB but that’s a stretch. But if Jackson plays we win that game and I think the AFC. Roman’s crappy playcalling would’ve worked.

[santiagomn8]

It’s time to get rid of Harbaugh. I’m not just over reacting to the loss. There are just too many issues that he seems to never do anything about. The terrible play calling over the years by multiple coordinators on both sides of the ball. There has been a lot of player issues going back to the ed reed days. Idk it’s time for a new start in my opinion. We have the talent we need the coaching staff to put it all together.

As for who. I’m taking Eric Bienemy, Sean Payton, I would look into Ryans from the 49ers and Brian Flores those 4 off the top of my head

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

6 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Only legit holes on the roster are at WR & CB.

WR is such a gaping hole that it's almost an entire solar system by itself. Plus we're going to have to find another OC. I mean, we were SO BAD at WR that Mark Andrews essentially became our X WR because nobody else could play that position.

EDC should be taking so much heat for how he approached the WR position this entire year.

And then in regards to CB, we drafted 2 guys this year and at the end of the year they were both healthy scratches every game in favor of Daryl Worley and at most points of the season, in favor of Brandon Stephens...

Edited January 16, 2023 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[RavensfanRD]

6 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Only legit holes on the roster are at WR & CB. I wouldn't place any limits on what we can do in 23'. Even if we trade Lamar it's not like Huntley will be our starter. We'll find someone better and all the picks we'd get from a Lamar deal would let us go crazy. Plus, Roman will be gone.

I'm not worried about it. Calais is under contract too, so unless we cut/trade him or he retires he'll be back.

Seems really optimistic to me. QB's don't grow on trees as Raven fans we should ultimately know. Also crazy to think the Ravens are really about to fumble a generational talent in Lamar Jackson. And while no one is more excited than me to see Greg Roman gone, I don't have confidence in Harbaugh to find a suitable replacement.