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Random Ravens Thoughts: New Forum Edition


drd23

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16 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Cuck is a strong word and position when there’s some truth in this from both sides.

I disagree. This is the largest hit the Ravens have taken to their public image since the Ray Rice incident. During a media frenzy week(combine) no less. Rashod Bateman willfully making things worse, for no valid reason other than wanting to join to the attention seeking look at me aggrieved club on social media, is inexcusable. And a fan of the club being in any way happy about him doing this.... is utterly insane and just screams cuck to me. 

23 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

That was already an organizational black mark was it not?

EDC is ultimately the only person that can keep Harbaugh in check and thus having him move off of Roman and make the tough move a year early would’ve been something that is HIS responsibility. He needs to take accountability for that. 

That isn't EDC's responsibility. He has no power over the coaching staff. Harbaugh is a 'CEO Coach' empowered and hired by Steve Biscotti to handle all staffing outside of the executive/FO branch. Anything that isn't contractual or scouting related is under Harbaugh's purview. 

There is no blame sharing on this issue with the executive branch. The only people to blame for Saunders and Roman are Harbaugh and Biscotti. That's it. They enabled all of this.

34 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Whats more, that tweet, taken out of context as it was… is certainly a bad look. I’m sure Bateman was informed that he was not one of those WRs that EDC was referring to and I’m sure EDC probably didn’t mean it quite as aggressively as it could’ve come across to a young player who has yet to prove his worth.

We can't have players pouring gasoline on media fires because they get tilted off out of context tweets. That's essentially all social media is, out of context content meant to trigger. A grown man not being able to handle it is concerning. I'm a big believer in Bateman's talent on the field, but I won't forget this incident anytime soon.

46 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Ultimately, EDC needs to actively take this as a sign that he needs to do a better job within the relationships with the players. He might be better at some things than Ozzie, but you can get a sense that players don’t feel quite as respected under this GM regime as they did under Ozzie… and that’s a big deal. If EDC is better at his job, players wouldn’t feel the need to go to Twitter to voice their frustrations. It’s a new generation, sure, but part of EDCs job is to have strong enough relationships to players that if they did hear something out of turn, they would know they could go to him prior to expressing their frustrations via the media/online.

Ozzie was notoriously brutal and cutthroat with players. Who can forget him telling Lee Evans "You should've caught that ball". He was also a former HOF player and a legendary figure as the first black GM. That's weight and presence no other GM is ever going to carry. Dude was a teddy bear in Ravens media, but many parts mafia don to the roster. Players staying off social media before speaking to a GM or their agent as an intermediary boils down to their maturity level more than anything else. 

Bateman had a lot to prove, and has even more to prove now- on and off the field.

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51 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

I disagree. This is the largest hit the Ravens have taken to their public image since the Ray Rice incident. During a media frenzy week(combine) no less. Rashod Bateman willfully making things worse, for no valid reason other than wanting to join to the attention seeking look at me aggrieved club on social media, is inexcusable. And a fan of the club being in any way happy about him doing this.... is utterly insane and just screams cuck to me. 

Let me clarify. What do you mean by the above?

Is this referring to the Lamar contract or as I’ve just gotten caught up with some of the media items, the stream of former players speaking on the F- rating where we’re considered by far the worst strength staff in the NFL?

I was aware of the grade but not the social media fallout of it until Bobby’s most recent video. I also wasn’t aware that 30 organizations received positive grades and we were by far worse than the 31st ranked squad. That is indeed extremely interesting.

53 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

That isn't EDC's responsibility. He has no power over the coaching staff. Harbaugh is a 'CEO Coach' empowered and hired by Steve Biscotti to handle all staffing outside of the executive/FO branch. Anything that isn't contractual or scouting related is under Harbaugh's purview. 

There is no blame sharing on this issue with the executive branch. The only people to blame for Saunders and Roman are Harbaugh and Biscotti. That's it. They enabled all of this.

He is the CEO coach, but the GM still ultimately has the influence to fire a HC and thus ultimately Harbaugh answers to EDC. If EDC has/had a system in place where organizational grievances can be spoken with to him directly, then his job is to have the tough conversations with Harbaugh about really problematic team trends and if critical to step in and exert influence.

With Greg Roman there were some excuses that justify him being retained an extra season, but Saunders? There was the perfect excuse to get rid of him yet we did not.

I agree that Harbaugh takes the bulk of the blame on this, but besides the owner the buck stops with the GM, thus EDC and Bisciotti are inherently responsible for organizational shortcomings from all below if/when those problems are allowed to persist. As GM EDC is responsible for all football operations.

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

We can't have players pouring gasoline on media fires because they get tilted off out of context tweets. That's essentially all social media is, out of context content meant to trigger. A grown man not being able to handle it is concerning. I'm a big believer in Bateman's talent on the field, but I won't forget this incident anytime soon.

Don’t disagree, he didn’t handle that professionally and needs to be less defensive and more offensive… he needs to produce this season no excuses.

Conversely the organization needs to do a better job keeping players healthy as well, no excuses.

1 hour ago, DreamKid said:

Ozzie was notoriously brutal and cutthroat with players. Who can forget him telling Lee Evans "You should've caught that ball". He was also a former HOF player and a legendary figure as the first black GM. That's weight and presence no other GM is ever going to carry. Dude was a teddy bear in Ravens media, but many parts mafia don to the roster. Players staying off social media before speaking to a GM or their agent as an intermediary boils down to their maturity level more than anything else. 

Bateman had a lot to prove, and has even more to prove now- on and off the field.

I can’t recall the Lee Evans incident, but Evans should’ve indeed caught the ball. That’s a hard truth. Something a player would’ve probably told himself.

I think the thing with Ozzie is that he was fair. He told it like it was and didn’t sugarcoat it. He was respected for that approach.

I just think if there’s smoke, then there’s fire. Players do things like this when they’re a) narcissistic or b) when they don’t feel like they have a voice. I’d hope EDC sees this and points the blame on himself, does a better job with inspiring an environment that fosters respect. Because I think you’re right. This is an organizational black eye to be rated by far dead last in something and to have former players talking about how the medical staff and strength coaches hated each other. That sounds BAD bad.

This is something that in context of the Lamar injury sounds even worse. Was their validity to members of the team feeling that Lamar should’ve been on the field… and was Saunders one of/that person?

We already knew he cared so little for covid protocols at the height of the pandemic and at the height of the fear/hysteria that it brought with it. From the reports coming out this looks bad and it looks even worse for Harbaugh to keep him and bad for EDC to demand we move on from him sooner. I mean former players coming out and saying this is one thing. But problems between the training staff and the strength staff? And this being a known problem? That sounds toxic, and if true, deserves to be put on blast. Not by Bateman, an active player, but that’s something that Harbaugh and EDC both should’ve done more to put a stop to it until too late.

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49 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I was aware of the grade but not the social media fallout of it until Bobby’s most recent video. I also wasn’t aware that 30 organizations received positive grades and we were by far worse than the 31st ranked squad. That is indeed extremely interesting.

Yea, the fallout from this combined with everything else is what I was referring to. The club is feeling some atypical heat right now.

51 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

He is the CEO coach, but the GM still ultimately has the influence to fire a HC and thus ultimately Harbaugh answers to EDC.

Not in Baltimore, and across the league generally HCs are only getting taken out by the owner. There's a reason the media never asks Ozzie or EDC about Harbaugh's job security and instead always questions Biscotti. 

I wish that wasn't the case though. The executive branch of the Ravens has always been our strength and we quite frankly probably would've had better coaches during the Harbaugh era if Ozzie, EDC, and our scouting/analytics department had more sway in those hires.

HCs across the league probably already have too much power, but they're only going to continue to gain more as the demand for the Reid/Shanahan/Payton etc standard grows. I mean look at Gruden, he picked his own GM off a NFLN set. 

1 hour ago, diamondbull424 said:

I just think if there’s smoke, then there’s fire. Players do things like this when they’re a) narcissistic or b) when they don’t feel like they have a voice. I’d hope EDC sees this and points the blame on himself, does a better job with inspiring an environment that fosters respect.

I wouldn't consider Bateman's actions smoke(it's one misguided negative interaction up against thousands of normal ones), and I don't think he's necessarily a narcissist(Though maybe all WR are on some level). I think he got swept up in the heat of all the players bashing Steve Saunders and like a selfish irresponsible child he wanted to participate in a 'look at me' way. Like a bunch of HS students vandalizing a gym because they hate the teacher and then there's one tag along kid who decides to throw a brick at some other faculty member's car window to up the ante and get attention within the ruckus. 

There are definitely lessons to be learned for all involved in the situation though. 

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13 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Where does Mark Andrews rank among all time Ravens' TEs? 

His 2021 is a truly great TE season, easily the best of Ravens TEs. 

In terms of their overall careers, I'd go:
Sharpe
Andrews
Heap
PItta

Yes Heap played for more years, but at his his peak Andrews was all-pro. Heap only made 2 pro bowls. 

If we are just counting Ravens contributions, Andrews > Sharpe

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13 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Where does Mark Andrews rank among all time Ravens' TEs? 

I'm going solely by their Ravens careers considering Sharpe would be a runaway winner if not and we'd have to have guys like Waller on the list who played like 100 snaps for us but dominated elsewhere.

1. Andrews - will probably pass Mason in the next few years as the best overall pass catcher in team history

2. Heap - was making pro-bowls and made a 2nd team all-pro with one of the worst supporting offensive casts possible. Guy was taking debilitating hits across the middle of the field for a decade because of overthrows from guys like Boller, Anthony Wright, etc. and was still an 700-800 yard, 6-8 TD type guy year in year out in an era when we were essentially running it every play and had no other passing threats to speak of.

3. Sharpe - HOF player in Denver, fantastic SB season and we don't win that ring without him, but only played here 2 seasons at the end of the day.

4. Pitta - after the 2012 postseason run it looked like he was making an Andrews-like ascent for us, but injuries just killed his career. Had a killer connection with Joe for a minute there though.

5. Crockett Gillmore - because I said so. Late in 2014 and in 2015 he looked like he was going to turn into a legit weapon with his size, but injuries. 

 

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Funny we don’t see nearly the same “Chargers have completely failed to build around Herbert on a rookie deal!!” rhetoric that’s levied against the Ravens FO despite us being way more successful. It’s almost like surrounding Herbert with weapons to inflate his passing #s has come at the expense of other areas of the team and has adversely affected W/Ls 🤔

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@AFlaccoSeagulls @AngusMcFife

Yeah, if you want to go by on-field production, length of contribution, and overall skill, sure - guys like Ed Dickson and Nick Boyle >> Crockett Gillmore. But counterpoint: 6'6 260, and his name was Crockett Gillmore...so...

 

Edit: let us not forget about the legend of Daniel Wilcox either boys 

 

Edited by Ray Reed
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30 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

@AFlaccoSeagulls @AngusMcFife

Yeah, if you want to go by on-field production, length of contribution, and overall skill, sure - guys like Ed Dickson and Nick Boyle >> Crockett Gillmore. But counterpoint: 6'6 260, and his name was Crockett Gillmore...so...

 

Edit: let us not forget about the legend of Daniel Wilcox either boys 

You gotta give credit to Maxx Williams too for that extra X

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