2019 Free Agent Discussion

[Norm]

39 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Yeah, it's black and white like that. No other factors than income tax come into consideration. Just like when I moved across the country for a job awhile ago ( from SD no income tax to DC one of the highest taxed and expensive areas) the only thing i looked at what income tax. Not career opportunities, bigger stage, etc.

So, if we're offering a similar deal to a pass catcher with Miami or Jags they're 100 times/100  signing in Florida for the tax reasons and not a chance to play with Rodgers and the Packers who get more primetime games and increase their value/notoriety/endorsements. Right? C'mon.

Lol I was literally going to say nothing of this is black and white but at the same time I do think it's denial we aren't at some disadvantage here.

Obviously not all players have one personality. I grew up in the cold and never left and still know where I would go and it's not because I wanna go clubbin

[rcon14]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

Denial is people who think all FA's #1 requirement is how much time they can spend in da club, so GBs eliminated.

Cash, that's really it. GB offers more cash than the other 31 teams they'll get whatever FA they want.

Yup. Players want to get paid. So if you get a FA, it's extremely likely you offered them the most money.

[Packerraymond]

56 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Rodgers + Wisconsin < Trubisky, Chicago, more money. 

And I'm not so sure you're right there. 

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/25/top-free-agent-wr-allen-robinson-chose-bears-over-packers/

Article seems to suggest the offer was extremely similar.  14 million is what Robinson ultimately got out of Chicago, and 14 million was a number that kept repeating itself in Green Bay.  So, what, Robinson chose Chicago and Trubisky for 1 million more?  And you seriously think that's a point in your favor?  Really? 

Looks like straight from the horse's mouth it was not, in fact, about money. 

Then there's Wilkerson.  He left and visited 3 other teams.  Gotta say visiting three other teams before eventually signing is a good indication that nobody else wanted him. 

 

Lol "from the horse's mouth" again with this?!

When will people understand that these players are being politically correct? "Your team offered me more cash than the others." There's a great way to earn the hearts of a fan base. 

Just like Vernon Davis didn't want to play in GB and only SF right?

[Norm]

3 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

Yup. Players want to get paid. So if you get a FA, it's extremely likely you offered them the most money.

Agreed and when teams aren't willing to overpay and the offers on the table are all very comparable GB is disadvantaged. 

Look at it this way. If all 32 teams offered a player the EXACT offer, wait, let's extend this, if ALL top 10 players in a class have their choice of the identical of identical offers from every team. How far down the list is it for them? How many go to GB? 

It's not sacrilegious. It's not trying to make Ted sound like he had no blame for how he treated fa. It's just being honest. 

And saying if you pay the most you win, that sounds like we're admitting we have that disadvantage to me. Having to pay more than anyone else does is a crappy way to run a team and a clear disadvantage...

[rcon14]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

Agreed and when teams aren't willing to overpay and the offers on the table are all very comparable GB is disadvantaged. 

Look at it this way. If all 32 teams offered a player the EXACT offer, wait, let's extend this, if ALL top 10 players in a class have their choice of the identical of identical offers from every team. How far down the list is it for them? How many go to GB? 

It's not sacrilegious. It's not trying to make Ted sound like he had no blame for how he treated fa. It's just being honest. 

And saying if you pay the most you win, that sounds like we're admitting we have that disadvantage to me. Having to pay more than anyone else does is a crappy way to run a team and a clear disadvantage...

Paying the most to win is how you get free agents. And it's not just in the total dollar amount, it's also in guarantees, bonuses, etc. You don't just get to get great players for cheap contracts, that's not how this works. I'm not admitting a disadvantage, that is how free agency works. Every single team has to offer the most money in 99% of situations in order to get a free agent.

[Norm]

13 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

Paying the most to win is how you get free agents. And it's not just in the total dollar amount, it's also in guarantees, bonuses, etc. You don't just get to get great players for cheap contracts, that's not how this works. I'm not admitting a disadvantage, that is how free agency works. Every single team has to offer the most money in 99% of situations in order to get a free agent.

A. It's how you CAN win. It's not the only way

B. I never suggested we get anyone great for cheap. Or anything like that. 

C. Would need a citation for the 99%, I mean it's clearly not true unless it's specifically your top echelon players. 

2nd and 3rd tier players choose fit and location all the time.

I understand most money wins but we also need to be willing to do that and I don't think we are very often and that's where my whole thing started. You can earmark that money for others but if you keep getting outbid and you finally become too uncomfortable now you might be wishing you had Breeland over nothing

[rcon14]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

A. It's how you CAN win. It's not the only way

B. I never suggested we get anyone great for cheap. Or anything like that. 

C. Would need a citation for the 99%, I mean it's clearly not true unless it's specifically your top echelon players. 

2nd and 3rd tier players choose fit and location all the time.

I understand most money wins but we also need to be willing to do that and I don't think we are very often and that's where my whole thing started. You can earmark that money for others but if you keep getting outbid and you finally become too uncomfortable now you might be wishing you had Breeland over nothing

So now we're talking about GB FO's willingness to be the highest spender, which in and of itself, is the problem with FA. If you don't want to pay market rate for guys, you're not going to get them. That is the stance GB's FO has had for decades now aside from very particular cases. We can have a discussion about willingness to go top dollar for guys, but to say your average FA would pass up more guaranteed money in GB (assuming there weren't some crazy playing time or personal reasons, which do happen in some cases, but again, we're talking average FA) to play somewhere else simply because it is Green Bay and not some other place, just seems bizarre to me. These careers are so short, you have to make your money, and especially with limited guaranteed money, you better not mess it up.

[Norm]

6 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

So now we're talking about GB FO's willingness to be the highest spender, which in and of itself, is the problem with FA. If you don't want to pay market rate for guys, you're not going to get them. That is the stance GB's FO has had for decades now aside from very particular cases. We can have a discussion about willingness to go top dollar for guys, but to say your average FA would pass up more guaranteed money in GB (assuming there weren't some crazy playing time or personal reasons, which do happen in some cases, but again, we're talking average FA) to play somewhere else simply because it is Green Bay and not some other place, just seems bizarre to me. These careers are so short, you have to make your money, and especially with limited guaranteed money, you better not mess it up.

And I'm saying paying the most is paying OVER market value. And nobody is reading my words I guess. 

Never

At

Any

Point

Did I say they would pass on us if we are giving the most money. I'm saying when everything is identical or nearly they won't pick us. Other teams, many of them IMO, would get picked over us HENCE the disadvantage. And you both keep going JUST PAY MORE MONEY.

Yeah but Norm everyone who signs takes the most. Fine, whatever. Pretend there's a mystical fairy tale land where all the offers are the same. We are NOT among the top few locations. That's all I'm damn saying. I think it's pretty clearly true

[rcon14]

1 minute ago, Norm said:

And I'm saying paying the most is paying OVER market value. And nobody is reading my words I guess. 

Never

At

Any

Point

Did I say they would pass on us if we are giving the most money. I'm saying when everything is identical or nearly they won't pick us. Other teams, many of them IMO, would get picked over us HENCE the disadvantage. And you both keep going JUST PAY MORE MONEY.

Yeah but Norm everyone who signs takes the most. Fine, whatever. Pretend there's a mystical fairy tale land where all the offers are the same. We are NOT among the top few locations. That's all I'm damn saying. I think it's pretty clearly true

We're not even really disagreeing at this point. Money matters, location is borderline irrelevant.

[Norm]

26 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

We're not even really disagreeing at this point. Money matters, location is borderline irrelevant.

You're not hearing me though lol

If 5 teams all offer 10 million guaranteed, one of them being us, it's my contention that player RARELY chooses us. He will go to one of the 4 others more often, far more often, than here WITHOUT them paying more. If any of them step up and offer one million more, sure, they go there, even here. But without that he would take 10 million and go to a team that isn't us. And if we go to 11, then someone else does, the game continues and you keep paying more and more and more. That's my feeling

I don't think we can win often when things are equal. But many other teams can. 

Paying the most is kind of irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make.

Even if you think location doesn't matter all I want is people to admit when it COMES to location GB is way down the list of where guys want to go lol

Edited February 8, 2019 by Norm

[vegas492]

I hear yah, Norm.  I also hear recon.  You are saying pretty much the same thing.

Many times, the best deals you get in free agency are the deals you didn't make.

In terms of GB being disadvantage...if the money is equal?  That, I believe, depends on the player.  If the guy grew up in a small town and isn't into Big City life?  Advantage GB.  If he has a love for the outdoors?  Hunting and fishing?  Advantage GB.  If he has a strong passion for the game, GB may be attractive due to the history of the organization.  There are lots of things that GB can offer a player.  State of the art facilities, college like game-day feel.  

But that drawback is pretty big.  Small town life.  

And...as stated, much of it, if not all of it, comes down to money.

Let that first wave of free agency come and go.  Get that big money spent, then see what is left out there that has some nice value in it.

[Norm]

17 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I hear yah, Norm.  I also hear recon.  You are saying pretty much the same thing.

Many times, the best deals you get in free agency are the deals you didn't make.

In terms of GB being disadvantage...if the money is equal?  That, I believe, depends on the player.  If the guy grew up in a small town and isn't into Big City life?  Advantage GB.  If he has a love for the outdoors?  Hunting and fishing?  Advantage GB.  If he has a strong passion for the game, GB may be attractive due to the history of the organization.  There are lots of things that GB can offer a player.  State of the art facilities, college like game-day feel.  

But that drawback is pretty big.  Small town life.  

And...as stated, much of it, if not all of it, comes down to money.

Let that first wave of free agency come and go.  Get that big money spent, then see what is left out there that has some nice value in it.

Absolutely. There are guys that would come here. That's who we need to target too. But overall on average there's going to be more against that. I'm just saying over a long period of time other teams will get far more guys for equal money than us. Yes, if we pay most we will get guys. I'm just saying we won't get as many with equal money, IMO.

It's not a big deal, I think it matters more than him but sometimes people act like it doesn't matter or anyone would like to go here. I don't know if it becomes personal or whatever. I'm not trying to step on toes. But we would have an easier time if our team was in Miami. That's not a big deal for anyone to admit

[coachbuns]

19 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

We won't come close to spending 25 million on outside free agents that will count against our cap this year.  This free agency will not be the free agency Packer fans want nor expect.  

We will get a Jimmy Graham or a Julius Peppers or a Charles Woodson.  We will not be getting an Olivier Vernon or a Josh Norman or a Stephon Gilmore.

We will not get one of the "prized" free agents.  

If you think we will, you haven't been paying attention to Green Bay.  Really wish I didn't have to remind people of this every year.  

Doesn't have to be a prized free agent ... just has to be better than what we have.  In a number of player positions, I'd take average or a little above average as a free agent.  The Ted Thompson years I think are behind us.  Gute knows there is a timeline to get things in order and don't be surprised one bit if he indeed does spend at least $25 million this year. 

[coachbuns]

So Outpost, what do you suggest the Packers do?  Quit trying, move the franchise to another warm. tax free state, put our head in the snow and wish?  Nobody wants to come to Green Bay cuz of this, that, whatever;  how would you entice free agents to come here?   If we offer more money for a free agent to come here, are you the 1st one to whack them for overpaying?  Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't 

Edited February 8, 2019 by coachbuns
is what it is

[{Family Ghost}]

One of the reasons the Packers never get the big free agent is because they don't really participate in the opening stage/s of free agency.  If they are out throwing money at players when this thing kicks off they will land some players.  Thompson used to purposely skip the opening days because the money was too rich for his blood.  With a new coach in GB I think Gute is going to be a major player from the opening bell.

Edited February 8, 2019 by {Family Ghost}