2019 Free Agent Discussion

[SSG]

37 minutes ago, RedRaider said:

I'm not expecting all pros at wide receiver.  I'm expecting him to move the chains, score points, and win games.  I think the current crop in the right scheme can do this. 

Also, this year has no all-pro WR appearing the Super Bowl.  I forget who said this, but it still holds true: A flashy, all pro wide receiver is like a high end audio system on a car.  It gains attention and makes the vehicle seem cooler, but it's not necessary at all to make the car run.

Correct, Josh Gordon helped New England get there thru the regular season but is not playing in the game.  While the Rams have a pair of 1200 yard WRs who were both top 40 draft picks, neither are all pro.  They lost their leading WR on the season to injury who was a high 3rd round pick.

Moving the chains, scoring points and winning games becomes easier when you aren't forcing your QB to use undrafted free agents or low end rookie prospects to do so.  Not sure this is the super bowl to use as an example that WR talent doesn't matter.  The Rams have invested substantially into their WR core and even the Patriots who are an abnormality when it comes to WR talent used 4 WRs this year that they either traded for or brought in as UFAs.

Edited January 24, 2019 by SSG

[skibrett15]

13 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

If Rodgers needs more than Adams, GMo, MVS, EQ we wasted a hell of a lot of money.

That said, with our staffs hit rate, a round 3-5 WR should be taken just about every year.

I don't think he needs more than this to be a top 10 offense.  I think if you add 1 player who is better than those last 3, this is a top 2 offense or potentially all-time offense.

[RedRaider]

44 minutes ago, SSG said:

Correct, Josh Gordon helped New England get there thru the regular season but is not playing in the game.  While the Rams have a pair of 1200 yard WRs who were both top 40 draft picks, neither are all pro.  They lost their leading WR on the season to injury who was a high 3rd round pick.

Moving the chains, scoring points and winning games becomes easier when you aren't forcing your QB to use undrafted free agents or low end rookie prospects to do so.  Not sure this is the super bowl to use as an example that WR talent doesn't matter.  The Rams have invested substantially into their WR core and even the Patriots who are an abnormality when it comes to WR talent used 4 WRs this year that they either traded for or brought in as UFAs.

Moving the chains is also easier when you have a rock-solid offensive line and QB playing at all-pro level.  Probably easier with an all-pro running back too.  Winning is easier with a decent pass rush and competent safety play too.   As for this year being an anomaly:

   https://steelersdepot.com/2018/03/correlation-study-super-bowl-winners-and-1st-team-all-pro-wrs/

I don't disagree that it would be nice to have the 2011 GB receiving corps, but you can't build a dream team.  Some areas are going to have to be good enough.  I think this group is good enough. Other areas on the team are not and should be addressed first.    

[gopackgo247]

4 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

I don't think he needs more than this to be a top 10 offense.  I think if you add 1 player who is better than those last 3, this is a top 2 offense or potentially all-time offense.

give me a guy with good slot skill set and one of the young TEs from this class and im happy. fill in that OG spot and get a swing tackle. offense is good to go.

[Green19]

4 hours ago, SSG said:

=

If we're expecting AR12 to make All pros out of nothing, it's going to be a long long time before we make the playoffs again.  We might as well trade him now and restart this thing from the ground up if we realistically believe our QB should be able to play at an all pro level with Bak, Adams and a bunch of bottom of the roster caliber players.  Throwing entire drafts at the defense is the biggest reason we're getting used to watching the NFL playoffs without the Green Bay Packers.  

But they aren’t bottom roster players. They are talented young guys that need seasoning.

Plus he also has Graham and 2 good/great running backs that are never used in this offense. Green Bay today, right now has better talent pieces on offense than New England.

Rodgers wanted to complain about the coach and the plan... hey that’s now fixed. Moving forward he has to do more with less. He signed a contract that limits the amount allowed on the offense side of the ball... so he needs to do more with less, that’s what HE signed up for. That’s why GB paid him.

Plus the less money in the offense means money in the defense... which hopefully means Rodgers only has to score 20-24 points a game... instead of his customary 30-40.

[Dubz41]

3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

That's is where I am at too.  I'd like a WR who is a different size and skillset than what we have.

Though...I thought that Moore showed a lot of quickness in pre-season.  Like if he could catch a cold, he'd work nicely in the slot.

I also think that ESB has some slot in him.  Kumerow, too, but the quickness there isn't elite.  His head fakes and jukes, though, could make him work in the slot.

But yah...if a kid were to be there in the mid rounds who has slot written all over him, that's a kid that I'd like to take.  Unsure who that is...

Deebo Samuel or maybe the Isabella kid from UMass.

[SSG]

2 minutes ago, Green19 said:

But they aren’t bottom roster players. They are talented young guys that need seasoning.

Plus he also has Graham and 2 good/great running backs that are never used in this offense. Green Bay today, right now has better talent pieces on offense than New England.

Rodgers wanted to complain about the coach and the plan... hey that’s now fixed. Moving forward he has to do more with less. He signed a contract that limits the amount allowed on the offense side of the ball... so he needs to do more with less, that’s what HE signed up for. That’s why GB paid him.

Plus the less money in the offense means money in the defense... which hopefully means Rodgers only has to score 20-24 points a game... instead of his customary 30-40.

We'll have to agree to disagree.  This offense has Adams and a 4 guys who either weren't drafted or were near the bottom of their draft class.  The finale showed just how terrible the talent at WR is when we didn't have Adams.  Whether it was Rodgers or Kizer, the offense was pretty easily dominated by a terrible Detroit defense.  That didn't look like an offense that was only a HC away from being championship caliber.

 

You are short selling New England in the worst way.  The only 2 positions where we've got better talent is at LT and WR1.  Even then their overall line and their group of pass catchers are  better.  On top of that, the gap at QB is large.  I love Aaron Rodgers but I no longer put him in the same class as Tom Brady.  

His new contract isn't taking up anymore cap space than his old one.  Yes, his cap hit is bigger but so is the salary cap.  The cap has went up over 50 million dollars since he signed that first big deal and is going up another 13 million dollars next year.  His contract is a horrid reason to ignore the offense.

Putting less assets into the offense means a bad offense which is exactly what we seen this last year.  We had 10 halves of football last year where our offense failed to score 7 points or more.  You aren't making the playoffs when your offense is a dumpster fire for almost 1/3 of the season.

[SaginawReunion83]

1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

Deebo Samuel or maybe the Isabella kid from UMass.

Deebo has one of the best off the line releases in this years WR class. I absolutely love the way he plays, but I don't see him getting past the second round. I also don't see us drafting a WR until day 3.   

Edited January 24, 2019 by SaginawReunion83
grammar

[rcon14]

1 minute ago, SaginawReunion83 said:

Deebo has one of best off the line releases in this years WR class. I absolutely love the way he plays, but I don't see him getting past the second round. I also don't see us drafting a WR until day 3.   

Yeah Deebo is the star of the SR Bowl rn. Looks like he might end up as a top 40 guy.

[SaginawReunion83]

18 minutes ago, rcon14 said:

Yeah Deebo is the star of the SR Bowl rn. Looks like he might end up as a top 40 guy.

That route he had on Tuesday in the 1v1 portion was filthy. 

[jleisher]

If former Packers TJ Lang or Morgan Burnett get released, would you take a chance on 1-2 yr deals at a fair market price?  Burnett could play just Safety and help the youngsters, TWill could be moved back to CB if not cut.  Lang and Bulaga could be used to groom 2 draft picks for the right side in 2020.  What you think?  

[JBURGE]

If/when Justin Houston is cut, I wonder what his market will be. Another guy who's banged up a ton

Edited January 24, 2019 by JBURGE

[Apex]

TJ Lang played 6 games last year?  Morgan Burnett isn't what he once was either.  Pass on both.

[vegas492]

29 minutes ago, jleisher said:

If former Packers TJ Lang or Morgan Burnett get released, would you take a chance on 1-2 yr deals at a fair market price?  Burnett could play just Safety and help the youngsters, TWill could be moved back to CB if not cut.  Lang and Bulaga could be used to groom 2 draft picks for the right side in 2020.  What you think?  

Setting aside my love for both ex-Packers....

Lang has broken down.  

Burnett was more of a dime backer than a true safety.  Covering space is not what he does well.  So it isn't as easy as saying "Burnett could play just Safety".

So I'd pass on both, but if Lang could stay healthy......  

[Green19]

2 hours ago, SSG said:

We'll have to agree to disagree.  This offense has Adams and a 4 guys who either weren't drafted or were near the bottom of their draft class.  The finale showed just how terrible the talent at WR is when we didn't have Adams.  Whether it was Rodgers or Kizer, the offense was pretty easily dominated by a terrible Detroit defense.  That didn't look like an offense that was only a HC away from being championship caliber.

You are going to judge the talent after the QB had chased away the HC, the season was lost, and with guys clearly playing not to get hurt? The team quit... the offense was broken because of the fractured relationship between QB and HC.

Hard to judge WR talent or any of the talent with that going on, more so with a system/plan that has lost the belief of the trigger man. If Rodgers needs proven playmakers then GB made the wrong investment. You make the investment in Rodgers because he elevates his weapons. When you have a shot at getting him real talent, do it, more so in the draft so it’s cheap. But we did that, we spent on offense and ignored defense. How many playoffs did he and the offense not show up in or started too slow leading to an exit?

Tom is on a different level as Rodgers because he uses the guys around him. And he works the system. I’ll give you New England is far and away better with coaches... but on the field they aren’t. The issue is they have coaches that get the most out of guys and Brady has bought in.

Its why every year they keep asking is this the worse pats team to make the Super Bowl.

We will have to agree to disagree. And that’s fine... but Rodgers has had amazing talent most of his career. He hasn’t done much with it championship wise though. And objectively I get why... the defense has been bad, like laughably so. But the model was always to out score teams and do enough on the defense. To get better on defense Rodgers will have to do more with less now. Because we tried it the one way... so did Colts, Chiefs, etc. it doesn’t work, at least not consistently.