CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, Golfman said: He blocks like ****! His red zone efficiency was bottom or near the bottom. He was our #2 option and his percentage of completions per opportunity was near the bottom too. We can go back and forth all day! We won't agree, but there is no way Jimmy Graham earned being the TOP PAID TE in 2018. I could give a rats furry little arse how well he blocks. I'm not paying him to be an in-line blocker. He was never a good in-line blocker, and McCarthy's refusal to use him in his ideal role was stupid. IF you want an in-line blocker, put Marcedes Lewis on the field more. Simple. And you're not making the argument was Jimmy Graham worth the top TE salary in 2018. That isn't the argument. The argument is are the Packers better off with or without Jimmy Graham on the roster in 2019? The answer is pretty straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, packfanfb said: I think he is which is why he would be a good pickup (and probably cheap) even if we keep Graham. Unless I'm mistaken, he's a good move TE. Not much more. He's at best a warm body until we develop a TE. Not much upside there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Whose replacing him? You're either managing to either mend fences with Jared Cook or hoping that your rookie TE manages to outproduce YEARS of history. Which one is more likely? Maxx Williams or Jesse James and a draft pick would work for me. I'm not for keep paying an aging TE who is in decline and paid as though he's the best TE in the league. It is simply bad business. I'm done we aren't going to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopackgo27 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Come up with something than some arbitrary stance with absolutely nothing to back it up, I'm interested in hearing it. But the entire argument is based around feelings, and not facts. Sure, I'm the crazy one. Coming from the guy pounding the table for the highest paid TE in the league who had as many games with 1 catch as 6+, 6 games with less than 21 yards compared to 4 with 55+, and as many TDs as Geronimo Allison who missed 3/4 of the season. Oh? Did I mention he doesn't care to block a single lick. Yes, I'm the clearly the crazy one here. Lets hold out hope that the 33 year old washed TE will get better, sure. You're going off HOPE that a soon to be 33 year old TE will get BETTER, I'm going off the reality that he's only going to get worse and coming off the worst season of his career. What facts were you mentioning again? Oh yeah, he was the tallest little person in the room right? Sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I could give a rats furry little arse how well he blocks. I'm not paying him to be an in-line blocker. He was never a good in-line blocker, and McCarthy's refusal to use him in his ideal role was stupid. IF you want an in-line blocker, put Marcedes Lewis on the field more. Simple. And you're not making the argument was Jimmy Graham worth the top TE salary in 2018. That isn't the argument. The argument is are the Packers better off with or without Jimmy Graham on the roster in 2019? The answer is pretty straight forward. Without him! Easy to replace a guy who is not going to be better next year. Again, we don't agree and I'd like him gone. If he's a Packer I will hope he finds the fountain of youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, Golfman said: Maxx Williams or Jesse James and a draft pick would work for me. I'm not for keep paying an aging TE who is in decline and paid as though he's the best TE in the league. It is simply bad business. I'm done we aren't going to agree. Maxx Williams has a career 64 receptions, 497 receiving yards, and 3 TD receptions. The Ravens just drafted Mark Andrews in the 3rd round last year to replace him, and shockingly enough Andrews was more productive in his rookie season than Maxx Williams has been in his ENTIRE career. But you're right, the Packers are clearly better off with 3rd string TE. He's literally living off his draft status at best. As for Jesse James, nearly a third of his production came against Chiefs in Week 2. Let that sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopackgo27 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Great effort here too, good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, gopackgo27 said: Sure, I'm the crazy one. Coming from the guy pounding the table for the highest paid TE in the league who had as many games with 1 catch as 6+, 6 games with less than 21 yards compared to 4 with 55+, and as many TDs as Geronimo Allison who missed 3/4 of the season. Oh? Did I mention he doesn't care to block a single lick. Yes, I'm the clearly the crazy one here. Lets hold out hope that the 33 year old washed TE will get better, sure. You're going off HOPE that a soon to be 33 year old TE will get BETTER, I'm going off the reality that he's only going to get worse and coming off the worst season of his career. What facts were you mentioning again? Oh yeah, he was the tallest little person in the room right? Sweet. Jimmy Graham through the first 6 games had 27 receptions and 349 receiving yards. Over a 16 game extrapolation, that comes out to 72 receptions and 931 receiving yards. Which is more likely, that Jimmy Graham suddenly fell off the face of the earth or Rodgers stopped throwing to him? In the first 6 games, Graham averaged 7.3 targets per game. In the final 10 games, he averaged 4.5 targets. Seems it's pretty clearly the latter. No. I'm going off the fact that Jimmy Graham was a top 10 TE last year, and that rookie TEs rarely make an impact as rookies. But yeah, let's put our hope in other team's 3rd string TEs and move TEs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Golfman said: Without him! Easy to replace a guy who is not going to be better next year. Again, we don't agree and I'd like him gone. If he's a Packer I will hope he finds the fountain of youth. So you're telling me you think that a rookie TE is going to outproduce Jimmy Graham next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, CWood21 said: Jimmy Graham through the first 6 games had 27 receptions and 349 receiving yards. Over a 16 game extrapolation, that comes out to 72 receptions and 931 receiving yards. Which is more likely, that Jimmy Graham suddenly fell off the face of the earth or Rodgers stopped throwing to him? In the first 6 games, Graham averaged 7.3 targets per game. In the final 10 games, he averaged 4.5 targets. Seems it's pretty clearly the latter. No. I'm going off the fact that Jimmy Graham was a top 10 TE last year, and that rookie TEs rarely make an impact as rookies. But yeah, let's put our hope in other team's 3rd string TEs and move TEs. Did Rodgers stop throwing to him, or did Graham stop getting open as often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Just now, squire12 said: Did Rodgers stop throwing to him, or did Graham stop getting open as often? Let me ask you this, what would have caused him to suddenly not get open? As far as I'm aware, he didn't have any lower body injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: So you're telling me you think that a rookie TE is going to outproduce Jimmy Graham next year? You keep trying to compare his production, or lack thereof ,for his money vs. a replacement TE. You can get that plus, plus, plus from other areas. The Rams top receiving TE had 33 catches. There is MORE than one way to be productive on offense. There is ONLY one way to be successful running your salary cap. That is to cut your losses when you make a mistake as soon as it is financially viable to get out of it. It is very financially viable to get out of Graham's deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Let me ask you this, what would have caused him to suddenly not get open? As far as I'm aware, he didn't have any lower body injuries. Even more of a problem because he showed ZERO ability to elevate over defenders and make contested catches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, Golfman said: You keep trying to compare his production, or lack thereof ,for his money vs. a replacement TE. You can get that plus, plus, plus from other areas. The Rams top receiving TE had 33 catches. There is MORE than one way to be productive on offense. There is ONLY one way to be successful running your salary cap. That is to cut your losses when you make a mistake as soon as it is financially viable to get out of it. It is very financially viable to get out of Graham's deal. We're sitting on $36M in cap space RIGHT now. And that doesn't include the more obvious cap casualties (ie. Nick Perry, Tramon Williams, etc.). We don't need that much cap space. There simply isn't going to be that many players coming to Green Bay. Fact is if we cut Jimmy Graham RIGHT now, we have $7.3M in dead money THIS year. Fact is if we cut him after next year, we have $3.7M in dead cap NEXT year. We literally aren't hurting for money in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Golfman said: Even more of a problem because he showed ZERO ability to elevate over defenders and make contested catches. Even more proof that it wasn't Graham, it was Rodgers. I know it's not popular, but Rodgers deserves his fair share of the criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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