How do we fix the 2018 Jags?

[LinderFournette]

9 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

That would be pretty great

might make fournette a bad fit for his offense tho didnt oklahoma run something similiar and they had Perine

[Tugboat]

1 hour ago, LinderFournette said:

might make fournette a bad fit for his offense tho didnt oklahoma run something similiar and they had Perine

I don't know that Oklahoma has really been that similar to what Kingsbury does, other than also being one of the spread look Big12 offenses in general, where they all have quite a few similarities.

I do wonder how Fournette would fit in an offense like that...but as long as there's a ball and a hole to run through, i think Fournette will find a way to be successful.  I think he can be more scheme diverse than a lot of people seem to assume.  He's ideal in a real run heavy power scheme, but it's not like he doesn't have good vision and the ability to make quick decisive cuts and go.  When he finds a seam, he's got the burst to capitalize and surprising homerun ability too.  Probably just a bit harder to integrate him as quite the same workhorse, and really run the sort of smash mouth stuff they want with him in that sort of scheme, but i'm sure it'd be fine.

[Speedyg]

14 hours ago, Tugboat said:

I don't know that Oklahoma has really been that similar to what Kingsbury does, other than also being one of the spread look Big12 offenses in general, where they all have quite a few similarities.

I do wonder how Fournette would fit in an offense like that...but as long as there's a ball and a hole to run through, i think Fournette will find a way to be successful.  I think he can be more scheme diverse than a lot of people seem to assume.  He's ideal in a real run heavy power scheme, but it's not like he doesn't have good vision and the ability to make quick decisive cuts and go.  When he finds a seam, he's got the burst to capitalize and surprising homerun ability too.  Probably just a bit harder to integrate him as quite the same workhorse, and really run the sort of smash mouth stuff they want with him in that sort of scheme, but i'm sure it'd be fine.

He really doesn't have good vision or cut back ability.

He's no Richardson, but he's lacking in those departments. He's gotten better from his LSU days, but he's still need more work.

That said, he has at least shown the ability to catch so I don't think he'll be as bad a fit for that type of offense. It won't be an ideal fit though.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

21 hours ago, Speedyg said:

He really doesn't have good vision or cut back ability.

He's no Richardson, but he's lacking in those departments. He's gotten better from his LSU days, but he's still need more work.

That said, he has at least shown the ability to catch so I don't think he'll be as bad a fit for that type of offense. It won't be an ideal fit though.

I think the biggest issue with LF isn't anything he gives us on the field its just whether or not we can get him on the field. I love watching him run but his injuries worry me a lot

[Speedyg]

4 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I think the biggest issue with LF isn't anything he gives us on the field its just whether or not we can get him on the field. I love watching him run but his injuries worry me a lot

It's both for me. Watching a lot of other backs in the league you see they have much better vision and agility.

Leonard runs stiff. He uses that spin move so much when other backs would have been able to change directions.

So much wasted movement when he has to change directions. Granted he's bigger than these other guys, but honestly don't see him breaking as many tackles either. Kareem Hunts balance is so good that he can shed a tackle and move forward clean.

Leonard breaks the same tackle but falls forward for a 2 yard gain.

Maybe if there's more room like Kamara/Hunt sees he'll be able to do more, but if you're not getting Leonard downhill he really isn't going anywhere much.

Maybe that works for our situation where 3 yards and a cloud of dust is what we want because of our QB but it's disappointing how deep that RB class was that we spent the 4th on him.

Not sure if he was a TC or Doug or Caldwell pick, but if it was Dave that would be the 2nd time Dave has taken a RB high when it's such a deep RB class and better players behind (Yeldon vs Johnson/Ajayi)

[.Buzz]

2 hours ago, Speedyg said:

It's both for me. Watching a lot of other backs in the league you see they have much better vision and agility.

Leonard runs stiff. He uses that spin move so much when other backs would have been able to change directions.

So much wasted movement when he has to change directions. Granted he's bigger than these other guys, but honestly don't see him breaking as many tackles either. Kareem Hunts balance is so good that he can shed a tackle and move forward clean.

Leonard breaks the same tackle but falls forward for a 2 yard gain.

Maybe if there's more room like Kamara/Hunt sees he'll be able to do more, but if you're not getting Leonard downhill he really isn't going anywhere much.

Maybe that works for our situation where 3 yards and a cloud of dust is what we want because of our QB but it's disappointing how deep that RB class was that we spent the 4th on him.

Not sure if he was a TC or Doug or Caldwell pick, but if it was Dave that would be the 2nd time Dave has taken a RB high when it's such a deep RB class and better players behind (Yeldon vs Johnson/Ajayi)

Idk man, this last week his vision and cutting ability was evident. He's made large strides in both areas compared to last year.

[Tugboat]

6 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Idk man, this last week his vision and cutting ability was evident. He's made large strides in both areas compared to last year.

Yeah.  I just don't see it as this big weakness for Fournette at this point.  When healthy, he seems to find holes that none of our other backs do, and while he does have a great ability to power through and fall forward to make sure it's positive yards even when the blocking isn't really there...i think he's shown deceptive elusiveness and vision quite a bit too.

He's a much taller back than most, and he has a very upright running style...but i just don't see this big dumptruck of a guy who can't see holes and can't make sudden cuts.  His ability to do that in addition to the raw power and violence of his game, is what makes him a potentially special back.  It's what got him selected so high in the first place.

 

I mean, he's not Alvin Kamara or whatever, but heck...i wouldn't want him to be.  He's a different animal.

[Speedyg]

8 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Idk man, this last week his vision and cutting ability was evident. He's made large strides in both areas compared to last year.

He's improved from last year, for sure. But that's because all he did last year was put his head down if there wasn't a runway for him to run through.

[.Buzz]

14 minutes ago, Speedyg said:

He's improved from last year, for sure. But that's because all he did last year was put his head down if there wasn't a runway for him to run through.

Even so, this year he definitely has showed good vision and cutting ability, especially the last two weeks injury free.

If he can stay healthy, he's elite/special, imo. He just keeps looking better.

[Speedyg]

1 hour ago, Tugboat said:

Yeah.  I just don't see it as this big weakness for Fournette at this point.  When healthy, he seems to find holes that none of our other backs do, and while he does have a great ability to power through and fall forward to make sure it's positive yards even when the blocking isn't really there...i think he's shown deceptive elusiveness and vision quite a bit too.

He's a much taller back than most, and he has a very upright running style...but i just don't see this big dumptruck of a guy who can't see holes and can't make sudden cuts.  His ability to do that in addition to the raw power and violence of his game, is what makes him a potentially special back.  It's what got him selected so high in the first place.

 

I mean, he's not Alvin Kamara or whatever, but heck...i wouldn't want him to be.  He's a different animal.

What got him selected so high was teams (specifically the Jaguars) drooling over his speed/power combo. That's what makes him a special back. He didn't really make things happen in the backfield, and got bottled up when his Oline didn't wide-open lanes for him to run through. And I haven't seen that out of him as a pro. 

He is capable of making one gap cuts..But he doesn't do it often. Whether its lack of vision, agility, whatever it is...he opts for that spin move far too often. Last season I attributed it to his ankle issues, but now that he's healthy, he still doesn't do it. There was a run a week or so ago, where he tried to make a hard cut to the left after moving right. It took him 2-3 steps to stop and change directions that by the time he had done so, the hole has already closed.

I'm not saying he's a bum or a bust. His speed/power combo makes him very dangerous, and we've yet to see him in the NFL in an offense where he isn't the focal point of the defense. But I don't think he was head and shoulder above that class that we couldn't have taken someone else at that spot and waited on the RB later on.

Or maybe I'm just spoiled having watched Fred Taylor move like a freakin gazzell at 6'1 228.

[Speedyg]

11 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Even so, this year he definitely has showed good vision and cutting ability, especially the last two weeks injury free.

If he can stay healthy, he's elite/special, imo. He just keeps looking better.

I'll call him elite when he manages to break 4.0 ypc lol.

[Tugboat]

56 minutes ago, Speedyg said:

I'll call him elite when he manages to break 4.0 ypc lol.

Nobody is going to post a stellar YPC average when they're pounding the rock up the middle 20-25+ times a game, vs stacked 8 and even 9 man boxes all day because their is literally no passing game.

It's elite that Fournette even manages to make positive yards at all tbh.

 

Comparing him to what a few other backs from later in that draft have been able to do in completely different situations, in actual offenses, and where they're not the lone focal point...really isn't reflective of Fournette's value or ability.  I really don't think there's a single other back in that draft who could do what Fournette has.

Kamara is a receiving tandem back and didn't look near as good without Engram as the hammer, while playing in one of the best offenses in the league.  Kareem Hunt is an abusive dingbat.  Mixon was also an abuser coming out.  Conner is running behind a line that produces great results with multiple different backs and has a strong passing game to lean on, and really pass to set up the run.  Cook has been injured just as much as Fournette and hasn't really shown he can be a 20+ carry workhorse.  The rest that i can think of are JAG at most.

I don't really think that draft was as loaded with easy pickins of later pick stud workhorse RBs with special ability and the ability to be a real focal point like you're making it out to be.

Fournette may not be quite a unicorn like Freddy, but he's a pretty special back in his own right.  When healthy at least, i think you're massively underselling him as something a lot more ponderous and 1-dimensional than he's been.  It's just frustrating that he doesn't seem like he's ever going to be a guy who stays completely healthy all year.