Keys to Gruden Success?

[big_palooka]

12 hours ago, BayRaider said:

People really think tanking isn’t a thing in Basketball and Football? It definitely is. I will agree the season didn’t start off as a tank but it did start off as a rebuild with 5-7 win expectation. Once the Chargers beat us the first time and we realized how bad we were, we went into full 100% tank mode. Who cares about morale when none of these guys will be here in 2020. Don’t care about big FA’s either. 

You don't sign 24 FA's and have the oldest roster in football if you're rebuilding. 

[big_palooka]

8 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

yikes 

 

Who are these hacks? At least when it come to Dave Razzano, they could make a counterpoint and touch on a lot of stuff he got right. Every football guy out there had a bad opinion on a good player. How do you think guys like Brady last until pick 199.

[SimonGruber]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Who are these hacks? At least when it come to Dave Razzano, they could make a counterpoint and touch on a lot of stuff he got right. Every football guy out there had a bad opinion on a good player. How do you think guys like Brady last until pick 199.

I didn’t know The young Turks had a sports wing  more known for politics anyways yeah don’t know who these Windbags are 🤣

[Silver&Black88]

Keep politics out of here, you know it's against the rules

[BayRaider]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

You don't sign 24 FA's and have the oldest roster in football if you're rebuilding. 

You do if you’re not trying to win, none of those FA’s were good. 

[Darbsk]

19 hours ago, big_palooka said:

On 13/11/2018 at 4:33 PM, BayRaider said:

People shouldn’t judge him by games this year, we are not trying to win football games. I don’t care what facial expressions you see, we’re not trying to win. 

This is a lie. Teams don't tank in football. It's a culture killer. And right now the Raiders brand is at an all time low and it will be hard to convince FA's to come play without overspending.

Couldn't agree more. He gets paid enough and we have committed enough to him that he should be judged on every moment in every game let alone giving him a year of good grace. He took a team with potential that needed tweaking and updating and we now have the worst roster, worst morale, worst PR, worst red zone offence, worst defence and worst special teams in the entire league. This simply couldn't have gone worse and the buck falls with the guy raking in our hard earned money.

[Dessie]

59 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Couldn't agree more. He gets paid enough and we have committed enough to him that he should be judged on every moment in every game let alone giving him a year of good grace. He took a team with potential that needed tweaking and updating and we now have the worst roster, worst morale, worst PR, worst red zone offence, worst defence and worst special teams in the entire league. This simply couldn't have gone worse and the buck falls with the guy raking in our hard earned money.

Spot on @Darbsk, the tanking and rebuilding talk is just a smokescreen to try and hide the terrible job Gruden has done this year. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

45 minutes ago, Dessie said:

Spot on @Darbsk, the tanking and rebuilding talk is just a smokescreen to try and hide the terrible job Gruden has done this year. 

Um we sucked period. Our roster sucked we got lucky that playoff year cause Carr was lights out. False sense of success. Like mark said we failed to build the roster since 2014. NFL kept getting better and better and we we stuck in mediocrity. Even with Mack we were 500 team at best. I’m tired of being 500. Nothing else has worked might as well give gruden a shot. Only thing I’m mad about is how much the offense has sucked I mean tds are rare for us hell even tp was good for a td a game. 

This draft and fa will make or break us until then we have to survive this crap show. 

Weve seen worse sadly

[Humble_Beast]

2 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Keep politics out of here, you know it's against the rules

how is it politics? lol 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

You do if you’re not trying to win, none of those FA’s were good. 

Just stop. This team was trying to win. Gruden thought he could "throw it back to 1998" and sign a bunch of vets and it backfired on him in laughable fashion. 

You have a 100 mil dollar play caller and 25 mil QB.... you honestly think they didn't think they were going to win games?

Now they are the 30th ranked scoring offense in football

[big_palooka]

 

2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Couldn't agree more. He gets paid enough and we have committed enough to him that he should be judged on every moment in every game let alone giving him a year of good grace. He took a team with potential that needed tweaking and updating and we now have the worst roster, worst morale, worst PR, worst red zone offence, worst defence and worst special teams in the entire league. This simply couldn't have gone worse and the buck falls with the guy raking in our hard earned money.

Yes... Mark Davis thought he was a good coach away from a turnaround. He thought he had the roster, just need to be better coached and add some pieces. You have the QB, you just need "the QB guru". And then Gruden came into his organization with a wrecking ball and destroyed it all.

It'd be one thing if you had a plan.... they clearly didn't. If you did, you trade Mack before the 2018 draft so you know what pick you have. You move players who don't fit early in the process. And you don't overturn the roster with yesterdays players creating the oldest roster in football. 

Now... all we can hope is that when the dust settles, they have a plan and can execute it within the draft and FA. 

[SimonGruber]

2 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Keep politics out of here, you know it's against the rules

Please show me where I got political lol BP asked who those chuckleheads were helped him out 

[Darbsk]

6 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Um we sucked period. Our roster sucked we got lucky that playoff year cause Carr was lights out. False sense of success. Like mark said we failed to build the roster since 2014. NFL kept getting better and better and we we stuck in mediocrity. Even with Mack we were 500 team at best. I’m tired of being 500. Nothing else has worked might as well give gruden a shot. Only thing I’m mad about is how much the offense has sucked I mean tds are rare for us hell even tp was good for a td a game. 

This draft and fa will make or break us until then we have to survive this crap show. 

Weve seen worse sadly

Disagree. Success usually comes as a result of incremental improvements, not giant unpredictable leaps IMHO. You simply don't luck into a 12-4 season, we played really well and challenged (and beat) some really good teams. Sure, one or two games we had good fortune and made the most of our chances but in my eyes a team stands a much better chance of success building off a solid platform even if that is a 50% ball club.

Last year was a poor year but by no means was the team 'stuck in mediocrity'. We underachieved and I think most people expected a return trip to the playoffs during pre-season last year. and justifiably so. When you say nothing else has worked, I can't really see what you mean, we got to the playoffs very well and without the injury to Carr we could conceivably have been looking at the AFC Championship game - coming from where we did in 2013-2014 I consider that a successful turnaround. We had a keystone on D and some young drafted players that needed at least a chance, we had an elite OL and possibly the best interior in the league, we had a HoF running back, great pass catching TE, talent at WR and a QB that given the right circumstances could win in high pressure situations and deliver comebacks. We would have been much better IMHO building off what we did well and tinkering with or modifying what went poorly. We had draft picks to supplement or replace our parts that needed changing. I thought it was obvious what went wrong last year and what needed to be changed, what we didn't need was to blow up the whole lot and start again. 

What happens if this doesn't pay dividends over the course of two seasons, how long do we give Gruden, what even is his plan?? 

[NCOUGHMAN]

49 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Disagree. Success usually comes as a result of incremental improvements, not giant unpredictable leaps IMHO. You simply don't luck into a 12-4 season, we played really well and challenged (and beat) some really good teams. Sure, one or two games we had good fortune and made the most of our chances but in my eyes a team stands a much better chance of success building off a solid platform even if that is a 50% ball club.

Last year was a poor year but by no means was the team 'stuck in mediocrity'. We underachieved and I think most people expected a return trip to the playoffs during pre-season last year. and justifiably so. When you say nothing else has worked, I can't really see what you mean, we got to the playoffs very well and without the injury to Carr we could conceivably have been looking at the AFC Championship game - coming from where we did in 2013-2014 I consider that a successful turnaround. We had a keystone on D and some young drafted players that needed at least a chance, we had an elite OL and possibly the best interior in the league, we had a HoF running back, great pass catching TE, talent at WR and a QB that given the right circumstances could win in high pressure situations and deliver comebacks. We would have been much better IMHO building off what we did well and tinkering with or modifying what went poorly. We had draft picks to supplement or replace our parts that needed changing. I thought it was obvious what went wrong last year and what needed to be changed, what we didn't need was to blow up the whole lot and start again. 

What happens if this doesn't pay dividends over the course of two seasons, how long do we give Gruden, what even is his plan?? 

I used to think like you but not anymore. Crabtree was declining even in the playoff year. Our oline is overrated imo and is on the decline. Defense was never really anything special it was just Mack and a bunch of other guys. 

I say nothing else has worked cause we tried to build through the draft and fa with reg which has been a huge failure. So why not try gruden luckily we got picks for guys who imo were leaving anyways.

if gruden plan doesn’t work then it doesn’t but I don’t think it can get any worse then reg’s Roster. 

[drfrey13]

3 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I used to think like you but not anymore. Crabtree was declining even in the playoff year. Our oline is overrated imo and is on the decline. Defense was never really anything special it was just Mack and a bunch of other guys. 

I say nothing else has worked cause we tried to build through the draft and fa with reg which has been a huge failure. So why not try gruden luckily we got picks for guys who imo were leaving anyways.

if gruden plan doesn’t work then it doesn’t but I don’t think it can get any worse then reg’s Roster. 

I believe Jackson was over rated and/or is struggling on the right side.  I think Penn starting declining after 2016.  Hudson and KO where fine but I think the ZBS is having a huge impact on KO.  ZBS is having a negative effect on Jackson also but his problems go beyond that.  Jackson is making what we should be paying a RT to finally shore up that position.  Hard to tell what we should do to fix the o-line issues because there are several ways to attack it.  All I know is that something needs to be done and Parker is not ready to start.  Would love to sign the best RT we could get and let Parker sit behind Miller.  Really believe he can play LT but have my doubts about the right side.  I think Miller could play on the right side but not Parker.  We could even try both on the left next to each other.  This is not my Ideal situation but I think flipping everyone on the line might end up with a better result.