AKRNA Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Royal_VT said: It's draft dynamic though, based on the need of the position I don't think we will see the 3rd QB get picked outside of the top 15 for quite some time - because there will always be someone willing to take the risk to move up and take a guy (that they most likely believe in). Between that dynamic, and the variance of how teams evaluate QBs, pick 10 is really where we can expect maybe the 2nd or 3rd QB to go - regardless of their overall talent level relative to the field. ^^^ this is probably my favorite part of the draft, it is fascinating. It really is a pickle. So many different philosophies. I kind of like the Garrett/Carroll model. Pick a kid that lives and breathes football (Prescott/Wilson) in the 3rd or 4th, mentally sharp with adequate physical skills, put him on a team with a great defense, OL and running game and let 'em play and learn. Seems better than this years Arizona model. Pick a very talented QB in the 1st with interests other than Football, put him on a terrible team with no OL, Defense or offensive weapons and let him get the snot kicked out of him every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I'd like to see Clay Thorson get a look. He seems to have all the skills just not the talent around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, AKRNA said: It really is a pickle. So many different philosophies. I kind of like the Garrett/Carroll model. Pick a kid that lives and breathes football (Prescott/Wilson) in the 3rd or 4th, mentally sharp with adequate physical skills, put him on a team with a great defense, OL and running game and let 'em play and learn. Seems better than this years Arizona model. Pick a very talented QB in the 1st with interests other than Football, put him on a terrible team with no OL, Defense or offensive weapons and let him get the snot kicked out of him every week. Obviously there are better times to take a QB than others. The Cardinals situation being an example of where they may have selected a QB before they were ready. However, the scenario of having basically a great team rarely happens as well. It’s not easy to build a team and be a QB away from being contenders. Further, mid round pick QBs rarely hit. At some point you have to bite the bullett and role the dice on a QB. Honestly, Denver’s in as good a spot as any right now. The defense is still playing quite well and just added probably the best defensive mind on the market to the team in Fangio. The OL has improved (so did the running game) and they could use FA dollars or a draft pick (this is a very deep OL draft with quality guys likely available in the 3rd round) to make that unit even better. There is also talk Mike Munchak May end up as the OL coach and he’s arguably the best in the game at that job. Further, they can give the QB some time as they’ll have Keenum on the books for next year. Denver is in a terrific spot to take a QB in this draft. Looking at it from that perspective and knowing Kubiak’s tendency to go with average QBs, it wouldn’t surprise me if that was a sticky point between Elway and Kubiak. Denver seems to have set themselves up perfectly to target a round 1 QB in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, germ-x said: Obviously there are better times to take a QB than others. The Cardinals situation being an example of where they may have selected a QB before they were ready. However, the scenario of having basically a great team rarely happens as well. It’s not easy to build a team and be a QB away from being contenders. Further, mid round pick QBs rarely hit. At some point you have to bite the bullett and role the dice on a QB. Honestly, Denver’s in as good a spot as any right now. The defense is still playing quite well and just added probably the best defensive mind on the market to the team in Fangio. The OL has improved (so did the running game) and they could use FA dollars or a draft pick (this is a very deep OL draft with quality guys likely available in the 3rd round) to make that unit even better. Further, they can give the QB some time as they’ll have Keenum on the books for next year. Denver is in a terrific spot to take a QB in this draft. Yeah the situation may be right for a qb but there's got to be a right qb there. And Lock I want no part of top 10. Jones I'd consider a first rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, germ-x said: Obviously there are better times to take a QB than others. The Cardinals situation being an example of where they may have selected a QB before they were ready. However, the scenario of having basically a great team rarely happens as well. It’s not easy to build a team and be a QB away from being contenders. Further, mid round pick QBs rarely hit. At some point you have to bite the bullett and role the dice on a QB. Honestly, Denver’s in as good a spot as any right now. The defense is still playing quite well and just added probably the best defensive mind on the market to the team in Fangio. The OL has improved (so did the running game) and they could use FA dollars or a draft pick (this is a very deep OL draft with quality guys likely available in the 3rd round) to make that unit even better. There is also talk Mike Munchak May end up as the OL coach and he’s arguably the best in the game at that job. Further, they can give the QB some time as they’ll have Keenum on the books for next year. Denver is in a terrific spot to take a QB in this draft. Looking at it from that perspective and knowing Kubiak’s tendency to go with average QBs, it wouldn’t surprise me if that was a sticky point between Elway and Kubiak. Denver seems to have set themselves up perfectly to target a round 1 QB in this draft. Can't disagree at all. If we really like a kid and think he's the guy, pick him. We're pretty close to what I described as ideal conditions anyway, last year we weren't. Much improved OL, excellent running game and what should be at least a top half defense. I just don't know if there's that much difference between the 2nd QB and the 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Quote I kind of like the Garrett/Carroll model. Pick a kid that lives and breathes football (Prescott/Wilson) in the 3rd or 4th, mentally sharp with adequate physical skills, put him on a team with a great defense, OL and running game and let 'em play and learn. IDK if that can be labeled a philosophy. Dallas was trying to take Lynch in R1 that year. The lesson may be that guys deemed undersized are undervalued at QB, but that is changing. Both Seattle and Dallas sorta lucked out in their selections of Wilson/Dak. They were the rare mid round pick that panned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: IDK if that can be labeled a philosophy. Dallas was trying to take Lynch in R1 that year. The lesson may be that guys deemed undersized are undervalued at QB, but that is changing. Both Seattle and Dallas sorta lucked out in their selections of Wilson/Dak. They were the rare mid round pick that panned out. The one partial defense that Elway gets for taking Lynch Rd1 is that KC & DAL both tried to get Lynch. But there’s a key difference - both had established starting QB at the time with 1-2 years left minimum. So they could develop him. For Elway to think Lynch could step in year 2 week 1 was obviously way off base. But it shows how badly teams reach for QB. But it’s a good comp for the 2019 draft QB-wise and the risks it presents as well. If that was Elway’s only QB evaluation mistake it would be dismissed. Just in context of Brock / Lynch / Case hard to feel good that he’s learned. If it wasn’t Elway any other GM probably wouldn’t get another chance with the recent history of whiffs. But Elway deserves this shot. It’s just this is his last freebie. There’s no one else in the cross hairs if the next choice misses. This is no doubt part of what is pushing the 1.10 QB talk. It’s just scary that it’s clearly pushing the narrative Renck & Klis refer to (must get QBOTF), it seems to be framing a 1.10 pick no matter what. Guess we’ll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said: IDK if that can be labeled a philosophy. Dallas was trying to take Lynch in R1 that year. The lesson may be that guys deemed undersized are undervalued at QB, but that is changing. Both Seattle and Dallas sorta lucked out in their selections of Wilson/Dak. They were the rare mid round pick that panned out. Maybe a model, I don't know. The undersized though I'd dispute. These guys aren't tall but are built solid and can take the pounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Quote Maybe a model, I don't know. The undersized though I'd dispute. These guys aren't tall but are built solid and can take the pounding. Yep, frame means alot more than height. Its why Kyle Murray worries me so much. He has a Pat White esque' frame. The comparisons to Russ are nuts. Wilson has a great build for his size. OT - Just found out that Murray is part Korean. Thats gotta have the league salivating. If he becomes a star, that should put NFL on the map in South Korea IMO. Could generate alot of $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 20 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Yep, frame means alot more than height. Its why Kyle Murray worries me so much. He has a Pat White esque' frame. The comparisons to Russ are nuts. Wilson has a great build for his size. OT - Just found out that Murray is part Korean. Thats gotta have the league salivating. If he becomes a star, that should put NFL on the map in South Korea IMO. Could generate alot of $$$. Yeah the frame difference is massive. Wilson and Baker both have 20-25 lbs minimum on Murray at 195. More if those pics of Baker-gut in season were accurate lol. 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Yep, frame means alot more than height. Its why Kyle Murray worries me so much. He has a Pat White esque' frame. The comparisons to Russ are nuts. Wilson has a great build for his size. OT - Just found out that Murray is part Korean. Thats gotta have the league salivating. If he becomes a star, that should put NFL on the map in South Korea IMO. Could generate alot of $$$. Wow, just looked up Kyler Murray. Just a couple inches taller and 5 lbs heavier than Lindsay. Sorry, but I wouldn't use a pick on him. His chances of survival as a QB in the NFL would be slim and none. QB's in this league take a tremendous beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Quote Wow, just looked up Kyler Murray. Just a couple inches taller and 5 lbs heavier than Lindsay. Sorry, but I wouldn't use a pick on him. His chances of survival as a QB in the NFL would be slim and none. QB's in this league take a tremendous beating. Any pick? I wouldnt use a R1, and probably not a R2, but after that screw it. There are eventually outliers to everything, and he could be the outlier to the H/W needs at the QB spot. Thats worth a R3. But despite his athletic traits, and tremendous work ethic, I just dont use a R1 on that frame. If he comes into the combine 10lbs heavier, which would show that his body is ready and willing to gain those lbs (Some people can simply max out), then his stock may go up. But he needs calories now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I'd use our pick in the second for Murray there is risks. But a second is worth those risks. He's very talented. If Tarik Cohen can hold up and be durable at rb even smaller. Murray has a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Any pick? I wouldnt use a R1, and probably not a R2, but after that screw it. There are eventually outliers to everything, and he could be the outlier to the H/W needs at the QB spot. Thats worth a R3. But despite his athletic traits, and tremendous work ethic, I just dont use a R1 on that frame. If he comes into the combine 10lbs heavier, which would show that his body is ready and willing to gain those lbs (Some people can simply max out), then his stock may go up. But he needs calories now. He definitely was training for a baseball physique before. Guess we'll see what he can do if he chooses football. FWIW, I wouldn't spend a R1-R2 pick, either. Someone is going to, though, if he commits and the top-end class is as unexciting post-Combine & Senior Bowl as the tape showed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Any pick? I wouldnt use a R1, and probably not a R2, but after that screw it. There are eventually outliers to everything, and he could be the outlier to the H/W needs at the QB spot. Thats worth a R3. But despite his athletic traits, and tremendous work ethic, I just dont use a R1 on that frame. If he comes into the combine 10lbs heavier, which would show that his body is ready and willing to gain those lbs (Some people can simply max out), then his stock may go up. But he needs calories now. Yeah, maybe as a gadget guy. He could probably find a spot. I just wouldn't put much faith in him as a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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